1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:01,610 that triangle you know there's 2 00:00:04,700 --> 00:00:03,090 explanation for everything that appeared 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:04,710 in the Rendlesham forest incident 4 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:07,170 it wasn't involved aliens at all it was 5 00:00:12,589 --> 00:00:10,050 completely silent it comes right over 6 00:00:14,690 --> 00:00:12,599 our head it's sort of classic 7 00:00:16,550 --> 00:00:14,700 flying-saucer really standing in the 8 00:00:18,019 --> 00:00:16,560 clearing he turned over to my father and 9 00:00:23,929 --> 00:00:18,029 held his hand and he looked in his eyes 10 00:00:27,259 --> 00:00:23,939 and said we're not alone welcome to 11 00:00:29,390 --> 00:00:27,269 podcast UFO for our live show during the 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:29,400 show feel free to participate live in 13 00:00:34,030 --> 00:00:31,890 our chat room and don't forget to Like 14 00:00:37,010 --> 00:00:34,040 us on our very active Facebook page 15 00:00:39,290 --> 00:00:37,020 hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin 16 00:00:41,180 --> 00:00:39,300 will assure hosts real excited about 17 00:00:43,250 --> 00:00:41,190 today's show a show of two David's 18 00:00:45,319 --> 00:00:43,260 actually we're starting out for the 19 00:00:47,810 --> 00:00:45,329 first 25 minutes with screenwriter David 20 00:00:50,420 --> 00:00:47,820 O'Leary we're gonna be talking about his 21 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:50,430 creation project Bluebook it's going to 22 00:00:53,630 --> 00:00:51,510 be airing on the History Channel 23 00:00:56,119 --> 00:00:53,640 starting January 8th I'm real excited 24 00:00:57,950 --> 00:00:56,129 about that and then for the remainder of 25 00:01:00,080 --> 00:00:57,960 the show we have David Marlar first 26 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:00,090 we're gonna talk about actually Project 27 00:01:06,289 --> 00:01:03,510 Blue Book files and other many documents 28 00:01:09,490 --> 00:01:06,299 and ufo-related memorabilia that he is 29 00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:09,500 preserving in his library and has a 30 00:01:14,300 --> 00:01:12,060 perpetuity future we're gonna be talking 31 00:01:16,070 --> 00:01:14,310 all about that then the last part of the 32 00:01:20,359 --> 00:01:16,080 show will be taking calls starting an 33 00:01:23,179 --> 00:01:20,369 hour too and let's get started alright 34 00:01:26,020 --> 00:01:23,189 I'm here with David O'Leary welcome to 35 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:26,030 the show David thanks for having me yeah 36 00:01:32,060 --> 00:01:28,770 really excited about what you got going 37 00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:32,070 on here Project Blue Book and I have a 38 00:01:37,190 --> 00:01:34,680 bunch of questions to ask you first of 39 00:01:39,230 --> 00:01:37,200 all you want it's can you tell the 40 00:01:42,889 --> 00:01:39,240 audience when it's releasing 41 00:01:45,679 --> 00:01:42,899 yes January 8th at 10:00 p.m. 42 00:01:48,350 --> 00:01:45,689 9:00 central on history please tune in 43 00:01:51,740 --> 00:01:48,360 yeah there'll be a lot of us doing that 44 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:51,750 I'm really really really excited and and 45 00:01:58,130 --> 00:01:54,290 you have a great cast 46 00:01:59,870 --> 00:01:58,140 it's a Aiden I believe it is that's 47 00:02:02,870 --> 00:01:59,880 right we got we have Aiden Gillen from 48 00:02:04,670 --> 00:02:02,880 Game of Thrones yes we have Michael 49 00:02:07,730 --> 00:02:04,680 malarkey who fans may remember from 50 00:02:09,889 --> 00:02:07,740 Vampire Diaries we have I've got so many 51 00:02:10,889 --> 00:02:09,899 people Armin L wonderful or Metallica 52 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:10,899 seen on man and hi 53 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:12,970 we got neal mcdonough people 54 00:02:18,119 --> 00:02:14,950 know from legends of tomorrow and 55 00:02:20,339 --> 00:02:18,129 michael harney from from from orange is 56 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:20,349 the new black and Ksenia solo it's just 57 00:02:25,649 --> 00:02:22,329 a great it's a great sort of core cast 58 00:02:28,770 --> 00:02:25,659 there are wonderful actors and wonderful 59 00:02:31,679 --> 00:02:28,780 people too which I think can can be rare 60 00:02:32,789 --> 00:02:31,689 sometimes in this that's right and you 61 00:02:35,460 --> 00:02:32,799 know I've watched the trailers I've 62 00:02:37,259 --> 00:02:35,470 watched as much as I can watch and I'm 63 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:37,269 fascinated and I can tell it's really 64 00:02:44,339 --> 00:02:41,260 great acting - and really great special 65 00:02:46,050 --> 00:02:44,349 effects and so first of all though I 66 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:46,060 want to I wanted to talk a little bit 67 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:48,790 about you and your background if you 68 00:02:52,259 --> 00:02:50,170 wouldn't mind giving that and you know 69 00:02:55,679 --> 00:02:52,269 did you have a fascination with this 70 00:03:00,660 --> 00:02:55,689 topic I have yeah so uh I grew up in 71 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:00,670 York City and my friends and family joke 72 00:03:03,839 --> 00:03:02,170 who know me best that I have somehow 73 00:03:08,429 --> 00:03:03,849 found a way to kind of make a living and 74 00:03:11,129 --> 00:03:08,439 off of a lifelong obsession and that 75 00:03:13,679 --> 00:03:11,139 this subject goes all the way back for 76 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:13,689 me I mean really as long as I can 77 00:03:17,789 --> 00:03:15,489 remember I've like been fascinated with 78 00:03:20,729 --> 00:03:17,799 this I you know I grew up in New York 79 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:20,739 City I I remember scene 18 theaters and 80 00:03:26,339 --> 00:03:23,250 putting Reese's Pieces on my window so I 81 00:03:29,909 --> 00:03:26,349 drag I drag my father when I was 9 years 82 00:03:31,170 --> 00:03:29,919 old to the movie adaptation of Whitley 83 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:31,180 Strieber communion 84 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:33,010 starring Christopher Walken which is a 85 00:03:38,849 --> 00:03:36,340 famous 1987 you know alien abduction 86 00:03:40,379 --> 00:03:38,859 book uh you know dragging my dad to be 87 00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:40,389 like I need to go see this and I was and 88 00:03:42,300 --> 00:03:41,680 I was only 9 years old at the time and 89 00:03:45,409 --> 00:03:42,310 it's scary 90 00:03:47,909 --> 00:03:45,419 it scared the hell out of me yeah but 91 00:03:50,099 --> 00:03:47,919 you know and and all through high school 92 00:03:51,869 --> 00:03:50,109 reading you know reading the book 93 00:03:53,819 --> 00:03:51,879 reading reading everything to get my 94 00:03:55,649 --> 00:03:53,829 hands on watching documentaries on Fox 95 00:03:58,649 --> 00:03:55,659 you know greatest UFO was ever caught on 96 00:04:01,830 --> 00:03:58,659 tape you know and then it was really 97 00:04:04,020 --> 00:04:01,840 only in my in my adulthood in my 20s 98 00:04:07,770 --> 00:04:04,030 that I that I started to look much more 99 00:04:10,050 --> 00:04:07,780 seriously at about the history you know 100 00:04:12,149 --> 00:04:10,060 sort of America's bizarre history with 101 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:12,159 this phenomena as well which is was just 102 00:04:17,430 --> 00:04:14,650 as fascinating as as what's going on now 103 00:04:18,779 --> 00:04:17,440 and it's sort of a necessary piece for 104 00:04:20,159 --> 00:04:18,789 people for anyone who's genuinely 105 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:20,169 interested in this subject matter I 106 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:23,080 think fully understand just how how many 107 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:24,520 decades this has been going 108 00:04:29,719 --> 00:04:27,490 on just how far reaching it goes and 109 00:04:33,089 --> 00:04:29,729 just how serious seriously at one point 110 00:04:34,860 --> 00:04:33,099 you know we admitted to really taking it 111 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:34,870 I think we still take it incredibly 112 00:04:38,790 --> 00:04:36,310 seriously I do I think we just don't 113 00:04:40,469 --> 00:04:38,800 admit that you know I'm talking about 114 00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:40,479 sort of officially sort of 115 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:44,409 governmentally but and that you know and 116 00:04:50,369 --> 00:04:46,330 then and that sort of became the origin 117 00:04:51,899 --> 00:04:50,379 for me of when I wanted to develop a TV 118 00:04:54,689 --> 00:04:51,909 series and I was I was working more in 119 00:04:56,309 --> 00:04:54,699 movies at the time as a writer but what 120 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:56,319 I wanted to get into television now this 121 00:05:00,420 --> 00:04:58,090 I was like this is a show I would want 122 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:00,430 to see a show based off of a real life 123 00:05:05,309 --> 00:05:02,849 you know US Air Force program 124 00:05:07,230 --> 00:05:05,319 investigating UFOs told through the eyes 125 00:05:09,719 --> 00:05:07,240 of a man who really was involved in the 126 00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:09,729 program who really was a civilian 127 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:12,460 astrophysicist UFO skeptic who over the 128 00:05:18,300 --> 00:05:14,530 course of his time working a project 129 00:05:20,430 --> 00:05:18,310 Bluebook be became convinced of the UFO 130 00:05:22,980 --> 00:05:20,440 UFO reality and felt UFOs were worthy of 131 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:22,990 scientific scientific study I just felt 132 00:05:27,570 --> 00:05:24,250 that that and devoted the rest of his 133 00:05:30,749 --> 00:05:27,580 life to doing just that said that sort 134 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:30,759 of was the the origin for me interesting 135 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:34,690 so you talk about J Allen Hynek and on 136 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:37,090 YouTube I have that that video the 137 00:05:41,820 --> 00:05:39,969 picture of him up now and is one his 138 00:05:44,999 --> 00:05:41,830 little cameo there in Close Encounters 139 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:45,009 of the 3rd yes yeah yeah I love that yes 140 00:05:49,559 --> 00:05:47,050 you had a wonderful cameo that of course 141 00:05:52,050 --> 00:05:49,569 was also the a scientific advisor for 142 00:05:54,809 --> 00:05:52,060 Spielberg for the movie right which I 143 00:05:58,379 --> 00:05:54,819 thought was great just in terms of kind 144 00:06:01,649 --> 00:05:58,389 of his continuance and being a scientist 145 00:06:04,890 --> 00:06:01,659 assigned it to this subject now what 146 00:06:05,969 --> 00:06:04,900 what inspired the well let me ask you 147 00:06:09,899 --> 00:06:05,979 this how did you come up with this 148 00:06:12,209 --> 00:06:09,909 particular idea of going and using the 149 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:12,219 files and and and taking the cases how 150 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:15,250 did that all come about yeah I mean that 151 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:18,250 came from the fact that I had by then by 152 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:19,630 the time I was already thinking about 153 00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:22,150 this idea I had read you know it read 154 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:23,800 the UFO experience written by dr. Allen 155 00:06:28,649 --> 00:06:25,210 he's written a couple different books 156 00:06:31,260 --> 00:06:28,659 I'd read that and also read captain ed 157 00:06:35,870 --> 00:06:31,270 rappels book the report on unidentified 158 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:35,880 flying objects so I I just felt that 159 00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:38,110 gosh I mean I think it really just came 160 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:38,350 for 161 00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:40,570 like my I was trying to figure out I 162 00:06:44,490 --> 00:06:42,700 think the best writing happens when you 163 00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:44,500 you know on the writing side if you're a 164 00:06:46,980 --> 00:06:46,000 film or TV writer when you write about a 165 00:06:49,890 --> 00:06:46,990 subject matter that you're passionate 166 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:49,900 about yeah but also in television it is 167 00:06:53,910 --> 00:06:51,610 so important they always talk about this 168 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:53,920 in Hollywood or in Los Angeles like you 169 00:06:57,270 --> 00:06:55,690 need to have an engine of your series 170 00:06:59,130 --> 00:06:57,280 you need to have like every week there's 171 00:07:01,500 --> 00:06:59,140 going to be what's gonna be the you know 172 00:07:03,180 --> 00:07:01,510 the engine that you can kind of spin you 173 00:07:05,790 --> 00:07:03,190 know you know that you can spin out and 174 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:05,800 develop as time goes on and for me it 175 00:07:10,890 --> 00:07:08,410 was my gosh the the the entire body man 176 00:07:13,020 --> 00:07:10,900 of these 12 of these cases of these 177 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:13,030 real-life cases where every week we 178 00:07:16,290 --> 00:07:14,770 could look at a real-life case through 179 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:16,300 the eyes of like basically the first 180 00:07:19,740 --> 00:07:18,010 director of Project Blue Book and and 181 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:19,750 the chief scientific adviser to project 182 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:22,510 Lully teamed up working together to try 183 00:07:27,330 --> 00:07:25,420 to solve these cases it just felt like 184 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:27,340 okay there now we have our engine now we 185 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:30,250 have an a unique sort of way in into the 186 00:07:35,670 --> 00:07:33,910 show you know but then of course it's 187 00:07:37,830 --> 00:07:35,680 like you know you write in and and you 188 00:07:39,510 --> 00:07:37,840 develop it and you you know you come up 189 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:39,520 with a lot of it there too as you find 190 00:07:43,410 --> 00:07:41,560 it you know are you able to talk about 191 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:43,420 some of the cases that will be on season 192 00:07:48,990 --> 00:07:47,050 one I am absolutely absolutely I am me 193 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:49,000 personally I'm always a little like I 194 00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:50,170 don't want to give too much away like 195 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:52,240 down the line like some of the cases we 196 00:07:56,730 --> 00:07:54,370 explore in the later seasons but 197 00:07:59,370 --> 00:07:56,740 certainly anything that we've shown in 198 00:08:04,290 --> 00:07:59,380 the trailer as I as I think is I think 199 00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:04,300 fair game yeah so yeah I mean you want 200 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:06,040 to do this like yeah yeah it's like whew 201 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:07,660 the cases sure I'll do them out of order 202 00:08:11,370 --> 00:08:10,210 just so we don't I don't think it's such 203 00:08:13,260 --> 00:08:11,380 a way I don't want people that have to 204 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:13,270 clear of a map and again this is more 205 00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:16,330 about ideally for me would you know it 206 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:17,830 would be like everyone would tune in 207 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:20,350 without having seen anything but I also 208 00:08:23,460 --> 00:08:22,300 know that marketing is is by the way our 209 00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:23,470 marquee name is wonderful but it's like 210 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:25,180 it's such a huge piece because you have 211 00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:26,710 to get you to draw him that audience to 212 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:28,420 even get them to understand that it 213 00:08:31,890 --> 00:08:30,370 exists or to watch it but I you know one 214 00:08:33,570 --> 00:08:31,900 of the one of the cases we look at is 215 00:08:36,959 --> 00:08:33,580 the you know the Lubbock lights case the 216 00:08:39,390 --> 00:08:36,969 seminal case where a mysterious v-shaped 217 00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:39,400 craft was seen by multiple witness there 218 00:08:42,930 --> 00:08:41,500 are photographs these were trained 219 00:08:46,620 --> 00:08:42,940 witnesses in some cases these were 220 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:46,630 professors there's cops college students 221 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:49,750 who saw so that was a case that's a case 222 00:08:54,730 --> 00:08:51,770 that comes up in dead repellants book 223 00:09:00,250 --> 00:08:54,740 we explore that we look at the Gorman 224 00:09:03,579 --> 00:09:00,260 incident which was a real life oh god 225 00:09:04,810 --> 00:09:03,589 I'm not coming to blanking on the area 226 00:09:08,199 --> 00:09:04,820 of the air force that he worked for he 227 00:09:09,699 --> 00:09:08,209 was an aide he was a a oh gosh I'm 228 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:09,709 blanking I'm sorry but it was a real 229 00:09:15,370 --> 00:09:11,510 life military pilot who basically 230 00:09:17,230 --> 00:09:15,380 claimed to have a dogfight with a with a 231 00:09:19,150 --> 00:09:17,240 mysterious orb of light that he couldn't 232 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:19,160 that he couldn't explain a code working 233 00:09:23,949 --> 00:09:20,510 for the Coast Guard he was working he 234 00:09:26,590 --> 00:09:23,959 was a Coast Guard Oh God it's escaping 235 00:09:28,540 --> 00:09:26,600 we apologize we look at the flatwoods 236 00:09:31,870 --> 00:09:28,550 monster case which was a multiple citing 237 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:31,880 cases witnessed by civilians including a 238 00:09:38,050 --> 00:09:35,450 you know a woman who owned a farm and 239 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:38,060 multiple children some very strange 240 00:09:42,430 --> 00:09:40,040 things happening there very strange up 241 00:09:44,410 --> 00:09:42,440 we could just just hold on that case 242 00:09:47,500 --> 00:09:44,420 just a second that is such a bizarre 243 00:09:49,630 --> 00:09:47,510 case I thought I loved that case it's 244 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:49,640 funny I was just asked recently what's 245 00:09:52,449 --> 00:09:50,810 like you know does any of the cases 246 00:09:54,910 --> 00:09:52,459 stand out for you and they listen I I 247 00:09:57,610 --> 00:09:54,920 love them all under so many great ones I 248 00:09:59,139 --> 00:09:57,620 love that case for so many reasons just 249 00:10:00,069 --> 00:09:59,149 because a there's there's there's so 250 00:10:01,420 --> 00:10:00,079 many different for those who are 251 00:10:03,550 --> 00:10:01,430 unfamiliar with the case it's basically 252 00:10:05,019 --> 00:10:03,560 like a woman and a bunch of children saw 253 00:10:06,610 --> 00:10:05,029 a mysterious then crashed down from the 254 00:10:08,410 --> 00:10:06,620 sky when they went to investigate 255 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:08,420 they found me there was this strange 256 00:10:12,670 --> 00:10:10,610 mist that that caused burn marks on 257 00:10:14,530 --> 00:10:12,680 their skin and then of course more 258 00:10:20,290 --> 00:10:14,540 intriguingly is they all witnessed a 259 00:10:22,420 --> 00:10:20,300 very very strangely depicted entity of 260 00:10:24,850 --> 00:10:22,430 some sort they that they did they that 261 00:10:26,079 --> 00:10:24,860 they all said they saw the exact same 262 00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:26,089 thing they were able to replicate each 263 00:10:30,420 --> 00:10:28,160 other's drawings about this thing and it 264 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:30,430 was this massive sort of like 10-foot 265 00:10:36,010 --> 00:10:33,290 creature that became known as the 266 00:10:38,590 --> 00:10:36,020 flatwoods monster uh you know this was a 267 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:38,600 highly investigated case many witnesses 268 00:10:42,699 --> 00:10:40,790 who saw you know Army and Air Force 269 00:10:44,620 --> 00:10:42,709 people on the ground they quarantined 270 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:44,630 off the area it was taken far more 271 00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:47,450 seriously than I think certain people 272 00:10:51,579 --> 00:10:49,700 might realize because it was just a you 273 00:10:53,889 --> 00:10:51,589 know woman working on a farm and a group 274 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:53,899 of children a very very dangerous inside 275 00:10:58,030 --> 00:10:56,510 but there's a there's I think what's 276 00:11:00,430 --> 00:10:58,040 great about that case is there's a high 277 00:11:03,810 --> 00:11:00,440 strangeness to it if you ever going on 278 00:11:05,260 --> 00:11:03,820 and even Google the deflowered monster 279 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:05,270 drawings 280 00:11:09,370 --> 00:11:07,610 like that there's it just it just looks 281 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:09,380 it just looks so strange in the 282 00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:12,770 depiction of it is so bizarre that um I 283 00:11:18,670 --> 00:11:16,310 think it it reflects just how weird 284 00:11:20,650 --> 00:11:18,680 sometimes this phenomena looks so weird 285 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:20,660 it has to be true like just sigh great 286 00:11:25,390 --> 00:11:23,360 it's not just you know and that and a 287 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:25,400 lot of these cases have that like the 288 00:11:29,230 --> 00:11:26,810 level of detail where it's just like 289 00:11:31,270 --> 00:11:29,240 that's just strange that's like that's 290 00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,280 not something you read in a sci-fi comic 291 00:11:35,110 --> 00:11:32,720 right that's like something that like 292 00:11:36,850 --> 00:11:35,120 and like that you like you should be a 293 00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:36,860 sci-fi comic writer if you have this 294 00:11:40,030 --> 00:11:39,020 incredible imagination or you're just 295 00:11:43,150 --> 00:11:40,040 telling me something that like almost 296 00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:43,160 makes no sense then this is so weird and 297 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:46,160 and yes I always loved I always loved 298 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:48,050 that case but we look we look at a I 299 00:11:51,730 --> 00:11:49,490 think when we were picking out what 300 00:11:54,370 --> 00:11:51,740 cases we wanted to do we well we also 301 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:54,380 wanted to make sure we we were truthful 302 00:12:00,730 --> 00:11:58,610 to the sort of various forms in which 303 00:12:02,050 --> 00:12:00,740 UFO phenomena occurs I think most people 304 00:12:04,060 --> 00:12:02,060 when they think of a UFO they think of 305 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:04,070 the classic like oh like a man sees a 306 00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:06,770 disc a disc metallic disc hovering in 307 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:09,760 the sky but there's so much more strange 308 00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:13,010 types of UFOs that people see that go 309 00:12:17,470 --> 00:12:14,990 all the way back and we've tried to be 310 00:12:19,090 --> 00:12:17,480 as authentic and honest to that as we 311 00:12:21,670 --> 00:12:19,100 could and there are frankly cases that 312 00:12:23,020 --> 00:12:21,680 we didn't get to in that in that you 313 00:12:24,670 --> 00:12:23,030 know we were trying to be as truthful to 314 00:12:26,170 --> 00:12:24,680 chronologically as we could within a 315 00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:26,180 certain window and there are some great 316 00:12:29,770 --> 00:12:27,920 cases that we just like we're unable to 317 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:29,780 get to we had 10 episodes then I would 318 00:12:34,270 --> 00:12:31,310 love to you know if we get the chance to 319 00:12:35,770 --> 00:12:34,280 to continue to tell stories explore some 320 00:12:38,230 --> 00:12:35,780 of these other ones that are just you 321 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:38,240 know they're crazy this is a Koro case 322 00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:41,710 have you heard of that might have yeah I 323 00:12:50,410 --> 00:12:45,440 believe it's 66 and we tried to keep our 324 00:12:53,020 --> 00:12:50,420 window all right they try to keep our 325 00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:53,030 window you know I would say that the the 326 00:12:58,690 --> 00:12:54,830 timeline of the show unfolds between 327 00:13:01,960 --> 00:12:58,700 about you know let's just say like 1951 328 00:13:04,810 --> 00:13:01,970 through 1952 and I would say that the 329 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:04,820 breadth of cases we look at it's go from 330 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:09,050 about 1948 to 1953 and so with we tried 331 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:10,970 to be it's tricky because you know you 332 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:15,080 wanna you're building a compelling you 333 00:13:18,730 --> 00:13:17,210 know drama and you want your cases to 334 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:18,740 feel like they build and 335 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:22,870 connectin and and and also help kind of 336 00:13:26,890 --> 00:13:25,010 tell the story you want to tell the 337 00:13:29,470 --> 00:13:26,900 tapping on the ground as well and and 338 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:29,480 and and sort of become more and more 339 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:32,930 apparently you know grow in stature and 340 00:13:36,490 --> 00:13:34,910 and in sort of multiple witnesses and 341 00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:36,500 things like that as they go on so we 342 00:13:40,630 --> 00:13:38,870 tried to be you know but I love that 343 00:13:42,910 --> 00:13:40,640 case I mean I do love that case we were 344 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:42,920 you know we just we had certain rules of 345 00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:44,810 like oh that case was too far ahead were 346 00:13:49,060 --> 00:13:47,180 like we love it but we can't do it can 347 00:13:50,410 --> 00:13:49,070 we find a case that like does who does 348 00:13:53,260 --> 00:13:50,420 that and then there were some great ones 349 00:13:54,910 --> 00:13:53,270 that like we were gonna do and then and 350 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:54,920 then we found something better or you 351 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:56,810 know what I mean someone I do but it's a 352 00:13:59,620 --> 00:13:58,130 wonderful case and one of the seminal 353 00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:59,630 case is actually by the way for for 354 00:14:02,980 --> 00:14:02,240 Hynek that was yeah that I kind of stuck 355 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:02,990 with him 356 00:14:07,420 --> 00:14:05,300 alright so that's the case I mean for 357 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:07,430 sure I'd love to get there you know what 358 00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:09,170 I mean and I'd love to get there in and 359 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:10,550 around the time line of our show when it 360 00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:12,410 really hurt when it really happened are 361 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:14,660 you going to be exploring at all the 362 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:17,330 time when there was sort of like a time 363 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:20,930 when when Hynek all of a sudden starts 364 00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:23,090 to realize wow you know there really is 365 00:14:28,330 --> 00:14:26,240 something to this is that gonna be yes 366 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:28,340 because here's the truth about mining hi 367 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:30,290 Nick hi Nick for the public eye emerges 368 00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:33,110 a video goes in a skeptic and then in 369 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:35,600 1969 pops out I believe right or pops 370 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:37,610 out having shifted side science being 371 00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:40,610 thinking that these are these are these 372 00:14:45,490 --> 00:14:42,440 cases are worthy of scientific study but 373 00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:45,500 the truth is that arc happened while 374 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:48,230 working at Blue Book as early I've seen 375 00:14:53,050 --> 00:14:49,760 where interviews were it's like as early 376 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:53,060 as the the CIA Robertson panel in 1953 377 00:14:58,870 --> 00:14:56,570 he already was well aware okay 378 00:15:01,810 --> 00:14:58,880 Project Blue Book is in many ways a 379 00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:01,820 disinformation a puppy on a PR campaign 380 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:04,670 for the for the Air Force to and using 381 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:07,010 people like myself to go out there and 382 00:15:10,570 --> 00:15:09,170 explain away sightings that's weird 383 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:10,580 because if they're trying to use us to 384 00:15:13,990 --> 00:15:12,410 explain something away what are they 385 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:14,000 explaining away top-secret military 386 00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:16,490 aircrafts is that all this is so his arc 387 00:15:21,130 --> 00:15:18,470 of you know he was a man that always 388 00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:21,140 stuck to his guns of being driven what 389 00:15:26,350 --> 00:15:23,150 drives him his science you know in the 390 00:15:27,700 --> 00:15:26,360 scientific suit and the evidence and you 391 00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:27,710 know I think it's the totality of his 392 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:29,990 time at Blue Book that had him devote 393 00:15:33,010 --> 00:15:31,850 the rest of his life to doing - to 394 00:15:36,010 --> 00:15:33,020 pursuing 395 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:36,020 UFOs was you know seriously but I would 396 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:38,090 but his you know just having you know 397 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:39,770 from the things I've read and and the 398 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:41,750 multiple people have talked to that that 399 00:15:45,940 --> 00:15:43,250 journey of realizing there was far more 400 00:15:48,070 --> 00:15:45,950 here than meets the eye began wat during 401 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:48,080 his time at Blue Book and we certainly 402 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:49,610 look at that and one of the reasons you 403 00:15:53,290 --> 00:15:51,050 know and even though that that blue book 404 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:53,300 was in many ways a you know sort of the 405 00:15:56,530 --> 00:15:55,250 beginning the beginnings of fake news if 406 00:15:58,680 --> 00:15:56,540 you want to if you want to look at it 407 00:16:01,420 --> 00:15:58,690 through that regard in that window um 408 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:01,430 you know he was a principled scientist 409 00:16:06,370 --> 00:16:04,490 but he had to place some ball on that 410 00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:06,380 issue because he wanted he wanted to 411 00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:08,420 stay why not leave Blue Book and it's 412 00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:10,580 because of his access to the cases you 413 00:16:13,750 --> 00:16:11,960 know what I mean like as a scientist he 414 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:13,760 couldn't turn away he knew that in fact 415 00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:15,890 he's like if I stay and I do the job I'm 416 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:18,350 hired here you I maintain my access and 417 00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:21,230 that became a big piece of why he stayed 418 00:16:26,650 --> 00:16:23,780 on for many many years and so for sure 419 00:16:28,660 --> 00:16:26,660 we we explore that as well but I I think 420 00:16:30,820 --> 00:16:28,670 most importantly we we try to stay true 421 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:30,830 to a man who is driven by science 422 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:32,210 even though while others these partner 423 00:16:35,110 --> 00:16:33,830 with like like Michael Malarkey's 424 00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,120 character who plays as Captain Michael 425 00:16:39,550 --> 00:16:37,040 Quinn you know are driven more by a 426 00:16:41,980 --> 00:16:39,560 sense of military duty and patriotism 427 00:16:44,410 --> 00:16:41,990 and like listen this is our job our job 428 00:16:46,030 --> 00:16:44,420 is to go out there and you know we're 429 00:16:49,330 --> 00:16:46,040 trying to avoid hysteria here we're 430 00:16:51,310 --> 00:16:49,340 trying to avoid you know chaos and 431 00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:51,320 feeding fuel to paranoia that we frankly 432 00:16:55,060 --> 00:16:52,910 don't know is warranted 433 00:16:56,170 --> 00:16:55,070 you know we need to close cases and so 434 00:16:57,730 --> 00:16:56,180 it became it becomes it's very 435 00:17:00,310 --> 00:16:57,740 interesting dynamic for the two of them 436 00:17:02,650 --> 00:17:00,320 of haiduk being driven by science and 437 00:17:05,710 --> 00:17:02,660 and Michael Malarkey's character Michael 438 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:05,720 Quinn being driven by uh by by military 439 00:17:09,550 --> 00:17:07,850 odd sense of purpose and duty and all 440 00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:09,560 that kind of thing you've seen DUP I'm 441 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:11,150 sure you've seen the clip when he talks 442 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:14,510 about swamp gas right oh for sure well 443 00:17:19,870 --> 00:17:17,089 one of the cases Hynek Hynek regrets so 444 00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:19,880 deeply I deserve time to be like yeah 445 00:17:22,930 --> 00:17:21,350 for those listeners unfamiliar right 446 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:22,940 this was this was like also in the late 447 00:17:27,460 --> 00:17:25,730 60s maybe 66 is flower near near that 448 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:27,470 time we're like yeah they were seeing 449 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:30,080 these mysterious lights right over over 450 00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:32,090 like kind of the swampy marshes of was a 451 00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:35,600 Michigan and like and and and and he's 452 00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:37,790 gets forced to go on on and basically 453 00:17:43,150 --> 00:17:39,950 say yes what you're saying is swamp gas 454 00:17:46,350 --> 00:17:43,160 and so we we we explore stuff like that 455 00:17:48,900 --> 00:17:46,360 as well yeah it was not it's not an easy 456 00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:48,910 and as scientists are being told to deny 457 00:17:53,850 --> 00:17:51,070 your scientific vigor and and and 458 00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:53,860 scientific mind in order to in order to 459 00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,600 do with what can be argued to be at 460 00:18:00,360 --> 00:17:58,000 least then by some a greater good of 461 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:00,370 calming of calming public and having 462 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:03,250 people turn away while we well really 463 00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:04,690 would you know well while people are 464 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:06,160 explaining you know the military and 465 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:07,540 everybody else is one of the genuineness 466 00:18:12,930 --> 00:18:10,090 of what's really happening right now 467 00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:12,940 right now you mentioned kind of the 468 00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:15,070 guideline for picking cases is like a 469 00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:17,980 time error but do you actually do this 470 00:18:22,140 --> 00:18:19,720 with someone is this something you do 471 00:18:23,790 --> 00:18:22,150 alone I think I heard you say that we so 472 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:23,800 does that mean you have like the team of 473 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:25,330 people going through these cases at 474 00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,650 choosing odds 475 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:28,960 absolutely so when when the show got 476 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:31,420 picked up to series so I wrote the pilot 477 00:18:34,950 --> 00:18:32,710 episode and I put together what's called 478 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:34,960 the Bible which sort of mapped out the 479 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:37,210 show itself season one and then even the 480 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:40,090 series beyond that but when it gets when 481 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:41,770 it gets picked up the series um you know 482 00:18:46,830 --> 00:18:43,690 I didn't write every episode we work we 483 00:18:48,690 --> 00:18:46,840 a we bring it we brought in a showrunner 484 00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:48,700 somebody who is like a veteran in 485 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:50,680 television I I've been working as a 486 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:52,450 writer but this was this was I was this 487 00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:54,610 was the first time for me working in TV 488 00:18:59,010 --> 00:18:57,370 and TV as a is there is so much said it 489 00:19:00,930 --> 00:18:59,020 goes into making a television show my 490 00:19:03,270 --> 00:19:00,940 goodness I thought ah we brought in this 491 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:03,280 wonderful wonderful showrunner who is 492 00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:05,050 who is just as passionate about this 493 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:07,540 issue as I am I named Sean Jablonski and 494 00:19:11,910 --> 00:19:10,150 him and I you know I gave him everything 495 00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:11,920 I had basically him and I sat in a room 496 00:19:16,110 --> 00:19:13,840 for a month before we even opened up the 497 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:16,120 writers room which was a small room of 498 00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:18,130 about five writers where we really 499 00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:21,100 mapped out the season um where him and I 500 00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:22,750 just went through and I just kind of 501 00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:24,400 laid it all out on the table like here's 502 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:26,140 what I want to do here the cases I think 503 00:19:30,270 --> 00:19:28,810 we should explore she read all he had 504 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:30,280 you know in and read all the research 505 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:32,290 all the books I had read and then him 506 00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:34,690 and I just sort of built it out together 507 00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:39,160 and and but what was great was uh you 508 00:19:43,290 --> 00:19:41,440 know he all the cases I wanted to do he 509 00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:43,300 wanted to do it we were very in sync 510 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:46,390 about about what we thought was 511 00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:47,650 interesting and what we thought would be 512 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:50,740 dynamic enough to so that every week 513 00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:51,910 people are looking at some of the best 514 00:19:55,380 --> 00:19:53,980 seminal cases of that era and then we 515 00:19:57,030 --> 00:19:55,390 partnered up with some great writers it 516 00:19:59,460 --> 00:19:57,040 was a small room it was myself or 517 00:20:00,100 --> 00:19:59,470 showrunner to other kind of veteran TV 518 00:20:02,169 --> 00:20:00,110 writers 519 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:02,179 a young staff writer if she was who she 520 00:20:07,030 --> 00:20:05,690 was grade two and and we you know we we 521 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:07,040 mapped it out and worked with our 522 00:20:10,299 --> 00:20:09,230 network and studio and casts and 523 00:20:12,250 --> 00:20:10,309 everybody to make sure we were telling 524 00:20:14,110 --> 00:20:12,260 the best the best 525 00:20:16,900 --> 00:20:14,120 you know she you know version of the 526 00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:16,910 story that we could how difficult was it 527 00:20:22,860 --> 00:20:20,480 to pitch this was did did you was a real 528 00:20:25,419 --> 00:20:22,870 tough tough on or did it go fairly easy 529 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:25,429 well it's funny so when I sold the 530 00:20:29,289 --> 00:20:27,170 project initially I had actually written 531 00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:29,299 I had done something that's less common 532 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:31,220 in television which is I wrote the pilot 533 00:20:36,820 --> 00:20:33,650 script I wrote a script and I wrote a 534 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:36,830 Bible before with nobody nobody paying 535 00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:38,809 me to do it I just I was just like this 536 00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,580 is this is the show I would here's a 537 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:42,559 show I would want to do and my hook was 538 00:20:45,730 --> 00:20:44,510 like and I was working on a couple of 539 00:20:48,370 --> 00:20:45,740 things at the time and my hope was like 540 00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:48,380 listen maybe somebody maybe like you 541 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:50,000 know there's someone out there who is 542 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:52,250 gonna spark to this this show and want 543 00:20:55,570 --> 00:20:53,900 to do it the way I want to do it or at 544 00:20:57,820 --> 00:20:55,580 the very least like you know people at 545 00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:57,830 least you know be get taken on a gray 546 00:21:00,850 --> 00:20:59,360 ride and maybe want to meet with me for 547 00:21:03,370 --> 00:21:00,860 other projects and things like that cuz 548 00:21:04,750 --> 00:21:03,380 that's sort of how television works is 549 00:21:06,430 --> 00:21:04,760 like you know you never know what your 550 00:21:09,850 --> 00:21:06,440 writing is going to be a sample or a 551 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:09,860 show but once we once fortunately we 552 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:11,210 were able to get it into the hands of 553 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:13,700 history in any studios and once they 554 00:21:18,669 --> 00:21:15,650 bought it we did and eventually what 555 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:18,679 happened was when it was getting when 556 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:20,330 was getting time when history was going 557 00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:22,010 to decide okay what show are we gonna 558 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:24,350 make next you know they they entered the 559 00:21:28,030 --> 00:21:26,090 the scripted arena they had done a show 560 00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:28,040 called six which is a great military 561 00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:30,140 drama show they did two two seasons of 562 00:21:32,530 --> 00:21:31,520 that based on real-life SEAL Team six 563 00:21:34,330 --> 00:21:32,540 missions they have a show called 564 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:34,340 nightfall which is about so the Knights 565 00:21:41,169 --> 00:21:37,250 of the knights of the round table or the 566 00:21:45,250 --> 00:21:41,179 Templar or all that when they came to us 567 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:45,260 about the show they they asked that I 568 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:47,330 was sort of her force to engineer a 569 00:21:51,970 --> 00:21:49,730 pitch that I could that could really 570 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:51,980 help everybody involved who green lights 571 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:53,450 a show you know they even though they 572 00:21:56,710 --> 00:21:54,710 hadn't read the script and looked at the 573 00:21:58,750 --> 00:21:56,720 bio ponal and do all that understand 574 00:22:00,580 --> 00:21:58,760 what this series would be and that and 575 00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:00,590 that was a joy I mean I actually really 576 00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:02,030 had a great time kind of building that 577 00:22:06,909 --> 00:22:03,590 out as a as a pitch that I had to 578 00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:06,919 basically memorize and and and give and 579 00:22:11,350 --> 00:22:08,990 then I even I I put together some visual 580 00:22:13,779 --> 00:22:11,360 stuff as well for for that as well 581 00:22:16,419 --> 00:22:13,789 actually like I cut what's called like 582 00:22:18,519 --> 00:22:16,429 like a rhythm attic trailer where you're 583 00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:18,529 basically you know incorporating images 584 00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,940 from other shows and things like that 585 00:22:23,950 --> 00:22:21,679 and movies and stuff like that to help 586 00:22:25,869 --> 00:22:23,960 just paint a picture of like here's the 587 00:22:26,619 --> 00:22:25,879 here's the look and feel of what this 588 00:22:27,969 --> 00:22:26,629 could be 589 00:22:29,619 --> 00:22:27,979 and I think that something that can 590 00:22:33,729 --> 00:22:29,629 sometimes help you as well having sort 591 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:33,739 of visual aids but but you know when you 592 00:22:38,469 --> 00:22:35,690 got Bob Zemeckis in the room that that 593 00:22:41,049 --> 00:22:38,479 helps too we only have about a minute or 594 00:22:43,149 --> 00:22:41,059 so here so yeah but what what did it 595 00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:43,159 feel like when you got the news that the 596 00:22:47,169 --> 00:22:45,320 History Channel picked it up you must 597 00:22:50,349 --> 00:22:47,179 have been beside yourself 598 00:22:52,180 --> 00:22:50,359 I was beside myself I'll tell that story 599 00:22:54,399 --> 00:22:52,190 but which was basically I happen to be 600 00:22:57,129 --> 00:22:54,409 in New York City at the time was it was 601 00:23:00,399 --> 00:22:57,139 right before Memorial Day weekend last 602 00:23:04,239 --> 00:23:00,409 year this is 2017 I'm out to dinner with 603 00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:04,249 my family and I knew that we were gonna 604 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:06,559 supposed to be hearing by them and I go 605 00:23:11,289 --> 00:23:08,690 outside and and it's an assistant on the 606 00:23:13,149 --> 00:23:11,299 phone being like hey David I have and 607 00:23:19,629 --> 00:23:13,159 then she lists everybody involved in the 608 00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:19,639 show for you where I you know grew up 609 00:23:25,629 --> 00:23:23,840 like my my stomping grounds and and our 610 00:23:27,729 --> 00:23:25,639 Toro our network executive said you know 611 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:27,739 history is decided to move forward the 612 00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:29,090 project Bluebook we're going straight to 613 00:23:33,159 --> 00:23:30,950 series with 10 episodes congratulations 614 00:23:36,339 --> 00:23:33,169 oh my it was just like one of those 615 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:36,349 moments you know I'll never forget 616 00:23:40,599 --> 00:23:38,090 because for me it's like listen as a 617 00:23:42,669 --> 00:23:40,609 writer it was a massive success for as a 618 00:23:44,259 --> 00:23:42,679 career move of course like I had been 619 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:44,269 you know what I mean they say like 620 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:45,830 success is 10 years in the making and I 621 00:23:48,940 --> 00:23:47,450 had been you know near misses and 622 00:23:50,830 --> 00:23:48,950 banging on doors and just trying to get 623 00:23:52,509 --> 00:23:50,840 my stuff you know any write a little 624 00:23:55,450 --> 00:23:52,519 test to stop difficult it is so it was 625 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:55,460 he it felt really good to get a yes but 626 00:24:00,759 --> 00:23:58,129 it really felt good to get a yes to a 627 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:00,769 show that I was already between like 628 00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:02,690 this was that this was the thing I 629 00:24:06,639 --> 00:24:04,820 wanted them to say yes to you know to me 630 00:24:08,589 --> 00:24:06,649 like the work I had other things going 631 00:24:10,719 --> 00:24:08,599 on on others you know a comic book thing 632 00:24:13,299 --> 00:24:10,729 I'd worked on or whatever but this one 633 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:13,309 was like the one for me and so to get 634 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:15,769 the yes to the one for me was just like 635 00:24:20,619 --> 00:24:19,129 a dream is a dream come true and then it 636 00:24:22,539 --> 00:24:20,629 just became about okay let's pour all 637 00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:22,549 that passion into trying to make as good 638 00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:24,590 a tea television series as we possibly 639 00:24:26,460 --> 00:24:25,070 can 640 00:24:28,529 --> 00:24:26,470 X ha and that's 641 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:28,539 or you know that's what we're we're 642 00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:30,250 hoping to do and and that's what I'm 643 00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:32,080 really excited about you know getting 644 00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:34,030 getting getting folks to watch it you 645 00:24:36,930 --> 00:24:35,740 know is this I can't wait to hear what 646 00:24:39,299 --> 00:24:36,940 the response will be and I hope I 647 00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:39,309 genuinely hope people like it you know I 648 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:41,470 have a feeling they're going to and I 649 00:24:46,409 --> 00:24:44,289 wish you many seasons yeah oh thank you 650 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:46,419 yes dad that's the true hope I mean 651 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:47,890 please you know when people watch it if 652 00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:49,510 you like it tell your friends about it 653 00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:50,440 you know I mean it's a it's a 654 00:24:54,299 --> 00:24:52,120 competitive marketplace out there and 655 00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:54,309 you know there's so many more stories we 656 00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:55,720 want to tell with this with this show 657 00:25:00,210 --> 00:24:58,570 and you know and kind of track all the 658 00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:00,220 stuff that's happening now too and it's 659 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:02,169 just right you know it's incredible 660 00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:04,090 what's going on now within the procured 661 00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,520 UFO climate so just a lot thank you 662 00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:08,559 excellent all right now David O'Leary 663 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:10,419 thank you so much and we'll be looking 664 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:13,570 for January 8 January 8 down history 665 00:25:35,170 --> 00:26:17,920 [Music] 666 00:26:23,620 --> 00:26:20,980 well that shut off Dave welcome to the 667 00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:23,630 show hello yeah I'm doing well thank you 668 00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:26,510 yeah that was not a very gentle laugh 669 00:26:32,530 --> 00:26:30,830 fade I just did there so I always loved 670 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:32,540 to have you on the show Dave thanks for 671 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:35,330 being willing being willing to come back 672 00:26:40,990 --> 00:26:39,230 and want to cover a lot of a lot of 673 00:26:43,990 --> 00:26:41,000 subjects did you listen to our last 674 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:44,000 guest I did and I was just sitting here 675 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:46,130 thinking to myself right before he 676 00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:48,290 transitioned over if any of your 677 00:26:52,570 --> 00:26:50,270 audience wasn't interested in this TV 678 00:26:56,170 --> 00:26:52,580 series after hearing David O'Leary speak 679 00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:56,180 he has a contagious enthusiasm that just 680 00:26:59,170 --> 00:26:57,950 spills over and if you weren't 681 00:27:01,390 --> 00:26:59,180 interested in watching the show before 682 00:27:03,820 --> 00:27:01,400 after hearing him I think you'd be a 683 00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:03,830 fool not to watch it I mean it sounds 684 00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:05,270 like it's really gonna be a roller 685 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:07,520 coaster ride of enjoyment as far as 686 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:09,530 touching on the history as he mentioned 687 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:11,810 but also creating that entertainment 688 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:13,850 aspect you know surrounding the history 689 00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:15,890 yeah yeah I'm really looking forward to 690 00:27:20,590 --> 00:27:18,800 it and I've watched just trailers so far 691 00:27:22,690 --> 00:27:20,600 but I know Alejandro has been able to 692 00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:22,700 actually see the first clip they had the 693 00:27:26,890 --> 00:27:24,980 screening that he got to see and all 694 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:26,900 that so yeah I'm really really looking 695 00:27:30,370 --> 00:27:27,530 forward to it 696 00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:30,380 so just real quickly for the person 697 00:27:34,150 --> 00:27:32,270 that's not familiar with who you are and 698 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:34,160 in your research library and all that 699 00:27:38,860 --> 00:27:35,770 can you just kind of give it a nutshell 700 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:38,870 yeah I've been actively involved in UFOs 701 00:27:44,290 --> 00:27:41,990 since 1990 during that time I did field 702 00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:44,300 investigations for MUFON in the early 703 00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:46,340 years then branched off and started 704 00:27:49,930 --> 00:27:48,470 doing historical research and collecting 705 00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:49,940 and gathering a lot of historical 706 00:27:54,910 --> 00:27:52,760 materials and making those readily 707 00:27:57,700 --> 00:27:54,920 available to researchers film producers 708 00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:57,710 and other interested parties and as a 709 00:28:00,970 --> 00:27:58,880 result have done a lot of lecturing 710 00:28:04,060 --> 00:28:00,980 across the country and participated in 711 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:04,070 many different documentary TV series and 712 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:07,070 TV shows on the subject so do a lot of 713 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:08,330 lecturing I've lectured at the 714 00:28:13,270 --> 00:28:09,890 university level here at the University 715 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:13,280 of New Mexico and Albuquerque and really 716 00:28:17,230 --> 00:28:15,170 just trying to educate people on the 717 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:17,240 real history if you will regarding the 718 00:28:21,310 --> 00:28:19,460 subject and as you and I have discussed 719 00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:21,320 on many occasions there's such a rich 720 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:22,880 history and even David O'Leary your 721 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:25,490 previous guest touched on that it's 722 00:28:30,730 --> 00:28:28,370 there's a diverse rich history that most 723 00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:30,740 people really aren't aware of even those 724 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:31,700 that go to UFO 725 00:28:34,810 --> 00:28:33,110 Frances I really don't think they've 726 00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:34,820 done their due diligence and really 727 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:37,550 looking at the historical narrative not 728 00:28:40,570 --> 00:28:38,810 just here in the United States but 729 00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:40,580 obviously on a global level 730 00:28:43,270 --> 00:28:41,840 looking at other countries and other 731 00:28:46,330 --> 00:28:43,280 governments that have researched the 732 00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:46,340 subject would you think that there's 733 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:51,680 probably a rich history that we're 734 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:53,510 unaware of 735 00:28:58,450 --> 00:28:55,910 you know like in perhaps colonial times 736 00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:58,460 or you know just throwing a number going 737 00:29:01,930 --> 00:29:00,080 back you know five hundred years or a 738 00:29:03,670 --> 00:29:01,940 thousand years or whatever do you think 739 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:03,680 there's a history you know you hear 740 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:06,050 little blurbs and some of them are you 741 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:08,930 know turn out not to be true but what do 742 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:11,690 you exactly yeah well then that's one of 743 00:29:14,860 --> 00:29:13,610 the biggest questions I get whether it's 744 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:14,870 talking to someone from the general 745 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:16,850 public or at a UFO conference how far 746 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:19,610 does this UFO subject go back obviously 747 00:29:22,780 --> 00:29:21,770 you know back in the 70s when I was 748 00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:22,790 growing up they used to call them the 749 00:29:27,910 --> 00:29:24,980 ancient astronauts now they call it 750 00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:27,920 ancient aliens but the concept is is the 751 00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:29,600 same in the sense that did early 752 00:29:34,810 --> 00:29:31,960 civilizations encounter some type of 753 00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:34,820 let's just say non-human intelligence 754 00:29:39,130 --> 00:29:36,740 that interacted with us early in our 755 00:29:41,890 --> 00:29:39,140 development it's interesting it's it's 756 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:41,900 food for thought it's speculative at 757 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:45,410 best obviously going back that far 758 00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:47,930 you're reading religious narratives that 759 00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:50,270 can be filtered through religious belief 760 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:52,700 so is it really factual in the sense 761 00:29:57,010 --> 00:29:55,130 that you know let's say in comparison to 762 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:57,020 military investigations where they 763 00:30:00,160 --> 00:29:58,130 actually went out and interviewed the 764 00:30:02,020 --> 00:30:00,170 witness and they're putting quotations 765 00:30:03,310 --> 00:30:02,030 you know under these statements or 766 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:03,320 around these statements that Witnesses 767 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:05,450 have made so it's interesting to delve 768 00:30:09,250 --> 00:30:07,250 back further in history but the further 769 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:09,260 you go back the more difficult it is to 770 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:12,770 really verify or you know confirm you 771 00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:15,530 know quote-unquote facts much of the 772 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:17,240 narratives are in religious writings 773 00:30:21,070 --> 00:30:18,770 which are like I said filtered and 774 00:30:23,530 --> 00:30:21,080 veiled through cultural ideas and 775 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:23,540 beliefs from that time so it's really 776 00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:24,650 hard to separate the wheat from the 777 00:30:28,630 --> 00:30:26,960 chaff and then you get into Native 778 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:28,640 American for instance in their oral 779 00:30:32,980 --> 00:30:30,770 history which is actually really 780 00:30:33,940 --> 00:30:32,990 fascinating you know that it is I've 781 00:30:35,380 --> 00:30:33,950 actually had some interesting 782 00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:35,390 discussions with some Native Americans 783 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:37,430 here in New Mexico that have either come 784 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:39,290 to my lectures alike or I've just met 785 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:41,330 socially and some of the interesting 786 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:43,910 discussions with that and even John 787 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:44,930 Alexander who were 788 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:46,220 wrote the foreword to my book he and I 789 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:47,570 have had some interesting discussions 790 00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:49,730 and one of the things John always brings 791 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:51,200 up which i think is an important point 792 00:30:56,860 --> 00:30:54,530 is Western civilization Western mindset 793 00:30:59,050 --> 00:30:56,870 we have normal and we have paranormal 794 00:31:01,540 --> 00:30:59,060 and there's a solid line dividing the 795 00:31:03,730 --> 00:31:01,550 two and as John has pointed out in some 796 00:31:05,610 --> 00:31:03,740 of his lectures that I've attended with 797 00:31:08,260 --> 00:31:05,620 the Native Americans and many other 798 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:08,270 indigenous populations across the world 799 00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:11,030 it there's not a division rather it's a 800 00:31:15,550 --> 00:31:13,910 continuum and so there is no stark 801 00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:15,560 division between the two they view it 802 00:31:20,020 --> 00:31:17,840 all as part of reality just different 803 00:31:21,490 --> 00:31:20,030 areas along the spectrum of reality 804 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:21,500 which i think is kind of an interesting 805 00:31:28,150 --> 00:31:25,970 concept right right so since we're just 806 00:31:30,790 --> 00:31:28,160 left with David O'Leary and talking 807 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:30,800 about Project Blue Book you have some of 808 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:33,290 Rob Mercer's files Rob's been on the 809 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:34,130 show a while back 810 00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:36,530 yeah for the person that's unfamiliar 811 00:31:39,910 --> 00:31:38,510 with those important files I think 812 00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:39,920 they're important and I'm sure you do 813 00:31:44,170 --> 00:31:42,160 too can you tell how that happened 814 00:31:46,810 --> 00:31:44,180 absolutely I'll try to give you the 815 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:46,820 Reader's Digest version and when I tell 816 00:31:49,570 --> 00:31:48,290 people this story they're almost in 817 00:31:52,150 --> 00:31:49,580 disbelief but I think it illustrates 818 00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:52,160 that you just simply never know where 819 00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:53,720 this material or this information is 820 00:31:57,490 --> 00:31:56,030 going to turn up I'll try to keep it 821 00:31:58,870 --> 00:31:57,500 brief for your audience because I know 822 00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:58,880 we have a lot of other things we want to 823 00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:02,240 cover about three to four years ago Rob 824 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:05,360 Mercer in Springfield Ohio was 825 00:32:11,170 --> 00:32:07,850 relatively new to the UFO subject he was 826 00:32:13,330 --> 00:32:11,180 a relatively new member of MUFON and he 827 00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:13,340 was surfing the internet on eBay 828 00:32:17,170 --> 00:32:15,470 Craigslist looking for just all manner 829 00:32:19,060 --> 00:32:17,180 of UFO information I think when we all 830 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:19,070 get into this we're all trying to learn 831 00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:20,570 as much as we can and we're trying to 832 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:22,340 just soak up information like a sponge 833 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:25,370 and one of the many searches on the 834 00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:26,000 Internet 835 00:32:32,790 --> 00:32:28,640 he stumbled across someone on Craigslist 836 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:32,800 in the Dayton Ohio area that was selling 837 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:36,050 purportedly selling original Project 838 00:32:40,660 --> 00:32:39,050 Blue Book material and like myself Rob 839 00:32:43,150 --> 00:32:40,670 thought that's just simply too good to 840 00:32:44,170 --> 00:32:43,160 be true well it was in the Dayton area 841 00:32:45,670 --> 00:32:44,180 which of course is where 842 00:32:47,230 --> 00:32:45,680 wright-patterson Air Force Base was 843 00:32:49,060 --> 00:32:47,240 their technical intelligence center 844 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:49,070 where Project Blue Book was based out of 845 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:51,610 so it was in at least the right area 846 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:54,290 long story short I mean the curiosity 847 00:32:57,610 --> 00:32:55,970 got the best of him and he decided I'm 848 00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:57,620 gonna at least pursue this and see see 849 00:33:01,390 --> 00:32:58,490 what all this is a 850 00:33:02,770 --> 00:33:01,400 I met with the individual and the 851 00:33:05,260 --> 00:33:02,780 individual that he purchased this 852 00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:05,270 material from like many people they they 853 00:33:08,919 --> 00:33:07,190 go out and bid on these storage units 854 00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:08,929 that go into arrears on their rental 855 00:33:13,150 --> 00:33:11,600 fees and so they open up the door to 856 00:33:15,549 --> 00:33:13,160 this one storage unit and this 857 00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:15,559 individual saw this lumber and he was in 858 00:33:19,060 --> 00:33:16,880 the construction and he thought well 859 00:33:21,010 --> 00:33:19,070 I'll just bid on this for the lumber he 860 00:33:22,990 --> 00:33:21,020 won the bid starts hauling all the 861 00:33:24,730 --> 00:33:23,000 lumber out and all the way to the far 862 00:33:27,490 --> 00:33:24,740 back end of the storage unit or two to 863 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:27,500 three boxes marked project Bluebook he 864 00:33:32,230 --> 00:33:29,690 opens it up and immediately realizes it 865 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:32,240 has to do with UFOs and this may be a 866 00:33:36,820 --> 00:33:34,130 shock to many of your audience but he 867 00:33:39,790 --> 00:33:36,830 had no interest in UFOs whatsoever and 868 00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:39,800 so he threw it on Craigslist and the 869 00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:41,780 timing worked out to where Rob was able 870 00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:44,120 to you know reach out to him not with 871 00:33:48,910 --> 00:33:46,760 him saw the information and purchased 872 00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:48,920 the collection and over the ensuing 873 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:50,630 months and I think year to year and a 874 00:33:55,030 --> 00:33:52,250 half started going through the material 875 00:33:57,220 --> 00:33:55,040 and one name kept popping up in some of 876 00:34:00,430 --> 00:33:57,230 the interoffice memorandums that were in 877 00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:00,440 the collection and it involved gentleman 878 00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:02,480 by the name of lieutenant Carmen Morano 879 00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:04,940 and obviously not a common name like 880 00:34:09,879 --> 00:34:08,060 John Smith so Rob in his infinite wisdom 881 00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:09,889 decided I'm gonna go on the internet and 882 00:34:14,169 --> 00:34:11,300 try to look at see if this guy still 883 00:34:15,700 --> 00:34:14,179 around and tracked rah actually tracked 884 00:34:18,369 --> 00:34:15,710 him down Rob tracked down lieutenant 885 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:18,379 Carmen Morano and struck up a 886 00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:22,310 conversation by phone and over a series 887 00:34:28,090 --> 00:34:25,280 of successive phone calls developed a 888 00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,100 rapport with him and in one of the 889 00:34:32,770 --> 00:34:30,320 subsequent conversations lieutenant 890 00:34:34,210 --> 00:34:32,780 Morano actually stated you know Rob you 891 00:34:36,340 --> 00:34:34,220 seem like you're having an enjoyable 892 00:34:37,869 --> 00:34:36,350 time with that material he goes I think 893 00:34:40,990 --> 00:34:37,879 I might have two or three more boxes of 894 00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:41,000 that material here at my home and so he 895 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:43,250 wanted getting more material in addition 896 00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:45,950 to what he originally collected and over 897 00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:48,470 about three years Rob took the time to 898 00:34:54,399 --> 00:34:51,230 digitally scan and transfer all of this 899 00:34:57,099 --> 00:34:54,409 material so it's preserved digitally the 900 00:35:00,760 --> 00:34:57,109 documents the photographs the film 901 00:35:03,220 --> 00:35:00,770 footage audio recordings it was just 902 00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:03,230 literally a treasure trove historical 903 00:35:08,410 --> 00:35:06,140 time capsule of Project Blue Book from 904 00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:08,420 the late 50s to the termination of the 905 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:11,820 project in 69 and in fact Carmen 906 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:14,250 was one of the last staff members for if 907 00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:16,260 your audience Google's Project Blue Book 908 00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:18,600 staff they can actually see a picture of 909 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:20,220 Lieutenant Commander on Oh from that 910 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:23,310 time period yeah we actually had we had 911 00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:27,210 his picture up just now oh yeah yeah so 912 00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:29,790 it was just amazing that he took all 913 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:31,710 this material with him and for any 914 00:35:35,210 --> 00:35:33,450 friends that are in the DoD all its 915 00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:35,220 information is unclassified there's 916 00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:37,260 nothing classified in nature I always 917 00:35:41,930 --> 00:35:38,940 like to throw that out just just for the 918 00:35:43,430 --> 00:35:41,940 record but in fact I while you I was 919 00:35:44,660 --> 00:35:43,440 listening to David O'Leary talk about 920 00:35:46,610 --> 00:35:44,670 Blue Book here's some of the original 921 00:35:48,740 --> 00:35:46,620 Project Blue Book files right here oh 922 00:35:50,330 --> 00:35:48,750 yeah and we got a lot of a lot of 923 00:35:54,070 --> 00:35:50,340 interesting documentation these are 924 00:35:57,350 --> 00:35:54,080 actually the cases in from New Mexico 925 00:35:58,490 --> 00:35:57,360 involving White Sands Missile Range UFO 926 00:36:02,960 --> 00:35:58,500 sightings around White Sands Missile 927 00:36:04,970 --> 00:36:02,970 Range in 1957 and then talking about 928 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:04,980 Socorro these are some of the original 929 00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:07,770 Socorro black-and-white photographs Wow 930 00:36:14,450 --> 00:36:11,460 from landing site from Project Blue Book 931 00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:14,460 and it has the proper earmarks not sure 932 00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:15,840 if you can see but this says foreign 933 00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:18,630 technology division right there on the 934 00:36:23,330 --> 00:36:20,700 top of the photographs and then we also 935 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:23,340 have unclassified right here and then in 936 00:36:29,140 --> 00:36:26,010 addition to that we have the trim on 937 00:36:32,540 --> 00:36:29,150 tynin Utah footage famous film footage 938 00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:32,550 16 millimeter and actually able to watch 939 00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:36,060 that yes yes absolutely and one of the 940 00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:37,680 really nice things was this little box 941 00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:39,180 right here I have two or three of these 942 00:36:44,690 --> 00:36:42,900 these were interoffice briefings for 943 00:36:46,850 --> 00:36:44,700 Project Blue Book staff members and Air 944 00:36:48,860 --> 00:36:46,860 Force personnel a quoting the latest 945 00:36:50,420 --> 00:36:48,870 sighting statistics and what's 946 00:36:51,770 --> 00:36:50,430 interesting is on these slides in the 947 00:36:54,260 --> 00:36:51,780 corner you'll see the foreign technology 948 00:36:57,350 --> 00:36:54,270 division logo so these were actually 949 00:36:59,900 --> 00:36:57,360 interoffice briefings done for Project 950 00:37:01,070 --> 00:36:59,910 Blue Book staff and so just a few of the 951 00:37:03,740 --> 00:37:01,080 things and then you also mentioned 952 00:37:08,780 --> 00:37:03,750 Socorro I quickly grabbed the unredacted 953 00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:08,790 Socorro 1964 landing trace case from 954 00:37:15,290 --> 00:37:12,420 April 24th 1964 and this is the original 955 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:15,300 Project Blue Book report right here Wow 956 00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:17,310 so just some really neat original pieces 957 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:19,620 of material that I know the University 958 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:21,450 of New Mexico is interested in 959 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:23,730 eventually having an air library for 960 00:37:27,260 --> 00:37:25,650 long term preservation yeah 961 00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:27,270 let's talk about that because first of 962 00:37:30,289 --> 00:37:28,740 all we're gonna pull up for the people 963 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:30,299 watching YouTube we're gonna pull up an 964 00:37:34,519 --> 00:37:32,250 image of your library your research 965 00:37:37,579 --> 00:37:34,529 ovary okay break up all those up there 966 00:37:40,279 --> 00:37:37,589 so let's talk about what you have been 967 00:37:42,260 --> 00:37:40,289 doing to preserve these documents and 968 00:37:44,420 --> 00:37:42,270 gather these documents I mean you've 969 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:44,430 laid out a lot of of your own expense 970 00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:46,650 over the years to actually you even 971 00:37:52,670 --> 00:37:49,020 built a place on to your home didn't you 972 00:37:54,109 --> 00:37:52,680 did you build a yes there's a 20 20 foot 973 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:54,119 by I'm actually sitting in it as we 974 00:37:57,980 --> 00:37:54,930 speak 975 00:38:00,769 --> 00:37:57,990 20 by 20 foot room I'm surrounded by you 976 00:38:02,990 --> 00:38:00,779 know 75 plus years of UFO history from 977 00:38:05,210 --> 00:38:03,000 floor to ceiling wall to wall I'm 978 00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:05,220 looking at about 6 to 16 four-drawer 979 00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:07,260 file cabinets full of historical 980 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:09,359 material on one side bookcases on the 981 00:38:15,799 --> 00:38:12,210 other original front page news papers 982 00:38:19,250 --> 00:38:15,809 and photographs on the walls yes 983 00:38:22,250 --> 00:38:19,260 a year ago decided to do the collection 984 00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:22,260 you know properly and have a dedicated 985 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:24,660 room built specifically to house this 986 00:38:29,569 --> 00:38:27,630 material but also to afford the ability 987 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:29,579 for individuals that are in coming 988 00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:30,930 through Albuquerque that are interested 989 00:38:34,579 --> 00:38:32,760 in the subject to come and review the 990 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:34,589 material a lot of people are interested 991 00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,970 in doing research but they don't know 992 00:38:38,990 --> 00:38:37,440 where to go to get the information and 993 00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:39,000 as I think you and I have discussed 994 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:42,599 before there's there's a plethora of UFO 995 00:38:45,410 --> 00:38:43,890 information on the Internet 996 00:38:48,289 --> 00:38:45,420 but how much is actually factually 997 00:38:49,940 --> 00:38:48,299 accurate or true and this affords 998 00:38:51,740 --> 00:38:49,950 individuals that are interested in doing 999 00:38:54,859 --> 00:38:51,750 serious and I underscore that three 1000 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:54,869 times serious UFO research by coming 1001 00:38:59,870 --> 00:38:57,690 here looking in actually holding the 1002 00:39:01,609 --> 00:38:59,880 original newspapers from the 1950s 1003 00:39:03,710 --> 00:39:01,619 holding the original government 1004 00:39:06,410 --> 00:39:03,720 documents looking at some of the 1005 00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:06,420 original materials one one other example 1006 00:39:10,039 --> 00:39:08,430 I pulled while we were I was listening 1007 00:39:11,930 --> 00:39:10,049 to the first part you were talking about 1008 00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:11,940 the flatwoods monster case this is a 1009 00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:14,640 little curio I picked up this is 1010 00:39:20,180 --> 00:39:17,730 handwritten testimony by the original 1011 00:39:23,029 --> 00:39:20,190 adult witness Miss Kathleen May huh and 1012 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:23,039 it's in her own handwriting so this is 1013 00:39:28,609 --> 00:39:26,490 an actual contemporaneous report of the 1014 00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:28,619 flatwoods monster case handwritten 1015 00:39:35,150 --> 00:39:31,980 account by Miss Kathleen May data dated 1016 00:39:36,980 --> 00:39:35,160 November 22nd 1953 and then there's some 1017 00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:36,990 subsequent notes on the other page as 1018 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:39,220 well so just one example 1019 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:42,760 like in in the the years that I've been 1020 00:39:46,980 --> 00:39:44,530 involved in the subject obviously as you 1021 00:39:48,660 --> 00:39:46,990 mentioned I've spent a lot of money 1022 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:48,670 purchasing collecting housing this 1023 00:39:52,620 --> 00:39:51,010 material the one thing I always like to 1024 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:52,630 mention though you know people talk 1025 00:39:56,970 --> 00:39:53,710 about the Bible 1026 00:40:00,359 --> 00:39:56,980 well the Bible means a book of books 1027 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:00,369 this is a collection of collections many 1028 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:02,650 of these items were acquired through 1029 00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,050 previous researchers that I've known or 1030 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:07,599 that have since passed on Lou Farish 1031 00:40:12,450 --> 00:40:10,290 being one bill Pitt's being another one 1032 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:12,460 Antonio who næss I just recently 1033 00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:14,530 acquired the files from Antonio cuneus 1034 00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:19,150 earlier this year dr. Leon Davidson mr. 1035 00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:20,800 David Schroth from st. Louis Missouri 1036 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:22,569 who collected a lot of historical 1037 00:40:27,359 --> 00:40:25,450 materialist 60s so it is a truly a 1038 00:40:30,839 --> 00:40:27,369 collection of collections in that sense 1039 00:40:33,569 --> 00:40:30,849 but I felt that it was important not 1040 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:33,579 only for what I've personally expended 1041 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:35,260 in time and money in collecting this 1042 00:40:39,660 --> 00:40:38,050 material but also I owe it to these 1043 00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:39,670 individuals that entrusted me with their 1044 00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:42,390 collections to try to ensure when I 1045 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:45,520 shuffle off this mortal coil that this 1046 00:40:49,470 --> 00:40:46,930 material is going to be preserved for 1047 00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:49,480 future researchers and historians so to 1048 00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:51,310 that end I approached the University of 1049 00:40:55,829 --> 00:40:53,020 New Mexico about two or three years ago 1050 00:40:57,030 --> 00:40:55,839 and told them about my collection now 1051 00:40:59,819 --> 00:40:57,040 you can imagine going to a university 1052 00:41:02,910 --> 00:40:59,829 going and talking UFOs I expected them 1053 00:41:05,579 --> 00:41:02,920 to quickly shuffle me out the door but I 1054 00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:05,589 did my homework I literally put together 1055 00:41:10,319 --> 00:41:07,750 a PowerPoint presentation to go in and 1056 00:41:12,569 --> 00:41:10,329 quote-unquote sell them on the idea that 1057 00:41:14,970 --> 00:41:12,579 at the end of the day and I always tell 1058 00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:14,980 my audience is this what do you relegate 1059 00:41:18,510 --> 00:41:16,720 the subject of fact fiction or folklore 1060 00:41:19,050 --> 00:41:18,520 at the end of the day it's part of 1061 00:41:20,790 --> 00:41:19,060 history 1062 00:41:22,109 --> 00:41:20,800 and I think David O'Leary even touched 1063 00:41:23,010 --> 00:41:22,119 on that during the first half of the 1064 00:41:25,890 --> 00:41:23,020 show 1065 00:41:27,540 --> 00:41:25,900 and so because it's part of history it's 1066 00:41:30,059 --> 00:41:27,550 incumbent upon us to preserve that 1067 00:41:33,329 --> 00:41:30,069 history for future historians in future 1068 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:33,339 researchers and they agreed and last 1069 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:35,650 year not only did they you know agreed 1070 00:41:39,740 --> 00:41:37,900 to having this as part of their 1071 00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:39,750 Southwest Special Collections library 1072 00:41:44,250 --> 00:41:42,400 but they also invited me to speak at 1073 00:41:46,170 --> 00:41:44,260 their annual event so I was able to talk 1074 00:41:48,839 --> 00:41:46,180 about the UFO subject at the university 1075 00:41:50,849 --> 00:41:48,849 level to the general public students and 1076 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:50,859 members of the academic community there 1077 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:52,930 and it was very very well received 1078 00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:56,290 in fact we did a lecture we the nature 1079 00:42:00,299 --> 00:41:58,000 and scope of the historical material 1080 00:42:01,799 --> 00:42:00,309 that I've collected so it was very well 1081 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:01,809 attended we had a nice little wine and 1082 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:05,050 cheese social right beforehand they did 1083 00:42:10,559 --> 00:42:08,170 it right and I'm just happy to say the 1084 00:42:12,299 --> 00:42:10,569 the staff at the University of New 1085 00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:12,309 Mexico has been absolutely outstanding 1086 00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:14,260 to work with and they've helped 1087 00:42:18,329 --> 00:42:15,609 facilitate some of my historical 1088 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:18,339 research by helping me go through their 1089 00:42:22,740 --> 00:42:20,050 microfilm collection going through old 1090 00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:22,750 newspaper archives and it's just been an 1091 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:24,160 absolute pleasure to work with each and 1092 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:27,130 every one of them I can't I couldn't 1093 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:29,650 have imagined the reception that they 1094 00:42:33,569 --> 00:42:32,050 gave me and anytime I go to the 1095 00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:33,579 University they roll out the red carpet 1096 00:42:38,940 --> 00:42:36,760 they treat me like royalty and the Dean 1097 00:42:41,220 --> 00:42:38,950 Dean Richard Clement of library library 1098 00:42:43,049 --> 00:42:41,230 Sciences I consider him a good friend at 1099 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:43,059 this point and he and his wife have been 1100 00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:44,890 here in this room to review the 1101 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:47,260 materials and they just find it utterly 1102 00:42:50,549 --> 00:42:49,210 fascinating is I think most people do 1103 00:42:52,890 --> 00:42:50,559 when they take the time to really look 1104 00:42:55,740 --> 00:42:52,900 at the data right yeah that's amazing 1105 00:42:57,809 --> 00:42:55,750 and it's so great because this is a you 1106 00:43:00,089 --> 00:42:57,819 know it's gonna be preserved where 1107 00:43:02,609 --> 00:43:00,099 actually people can actually continue 1108 00:43:04,740 --> 00:43:02,619 their research and like for instance 1109 00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:04,750 right now if someone wants to do 1110 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:05,980 research and they're traveling through 1111 00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:07,510 Albuquerque they've just get in touch 1112 00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:09,730 with you and ahead of time yeah 1113 00:43:14,130 --> 00:43:11,740 absolutely you know as long as they give 1114 00:43:16,109 --> 00:43:14,140 me notice I do work for a living so I'm 1115 00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:16,119 not here continuously although I wish I 1116 00:43:20,039 --> 00:43:18,430 could be to go through the material but 1117 00:43:22,319 --> 00:43:20,049 as long as they give me about a month's 1118 00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,329 notice I could probably make sure I try 1119 00:43:25,799 --> 00:43:24,400 to coordinate something for them but 1120 00:43:27,870 --> 00:43:25,809 like I said we've had a lot of film 1121 00:43:31,470 --> 00:43:27,880 crews in here just since this was 1122 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:31,480 erected James Fox so obviously I was on 1123 00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:33,730 a segment previously with James Fox and 1124 00:43:37,710 --> 00:43:35,920 James was here for two to three days and 1125 00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:37,720 he was literally like a kid in a candy 1126 00:43:41,130 --> 00:43:39,849 store when he first came in he started 1127 00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:41,140 going through and he just started 1128 00:43:44,339 --> 00:43:42,910 randomly just pulling out things and he 1129 00:43:46,829 --> 00:43:44,349 was excited like a kid on Christmas 1130 00:43:48,299 --> 00:43:46,839 opening presents and David white the 1131 00:43:50,099 --> 00:43:48,309 cameraman he and I just kept looking at 1132 00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:50,109 each other and laughing because James 1133 00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:52,960 didn't realize how much material I had 1134 00:43:56,970 --> 00:43:55,180 and I'm happy to say it's gonna be a 1135 00:44:00,750 --> 00:43:56,980 major part of his documentary coming up 1136 00:44:03,210 --> 00:44:00,760 next year and I was gratified that he 1137 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:03,220 didn't waste a trip coming out here in 1138 00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:05,710 fact just going back to the Socorro 1139 00:44:07,780 --> 00:44:06,710 photographs 1140 00:44:12,490 --> 00:44:07,790 you actually went to the National 1141 00:44:15,310 --> 00:44:12,500 Archives with researcher race Stanford 1142 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:15,320 and was desperately trying to find clear 1143 00:44:19,930 --> 00:44:18,290 photographs of the landing site and he 1144 00:44:21,790 --> 00:44:19,940 called me before he had come out for his 1145 00:44:23,349 --> 00:44:21,800 visit and he said Dave he goes I was 1146 00:44:24,820 --> 00:44:23,359 really disappointed he goes I went to 1147 00:44:27,250 --> 00:44:24,830 the National Archives and he goes they 1148 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:27,260 had photos from Project Blue Book on the 1149 00:44:30,099 --> 00:44:29,210 Socorro landing site but he goes you 1150 00:44:32,260 --> 00:44:30,109 couldn't make him out 1151 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:32,270 they were almost illegible and I said 1152 00:44:35,380 --> 00:44:33,650 well you know the history of how those 1153 00:44:37,420 --> 00:44:35,390 images got there he goes no tell me I 1154 00:44:39,310 --> 00:44:37,430 said well at the termination of Project 1155 00:44:40,750 --> 00:44:39,320 Blue Book in December 69 those files 1156 00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:40,760 were sent to Maxwell Air Force Base 1157 00:44:46,079 --> 00:44:42,710 where I was on a research trip earlier 1158 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:46,089 this year and they were redacted in 1159 00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:49,010 microfilm and made it you know available 1160 00:44:53,079 --> 00:44:50,000 to the general public 1161 00:44:54,870 --> 00:44:53,089 later in years those microfilm images 1162 00:44:57,250 --> 00:44:54,880 were then digitally scanned and then 1163 00:44:58,990 --> 00:44:57,260 they're there at the National Archives 1164 00:45:00,579 --> 00:44:59,000 and he goes well he goes the images I 1165 00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,589 saw he goes they were illegible I said 1166 00:45:04,810 --> 00:45:02,000 well that's why it's like making a copy 1167 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:04,820 of a copy of a copy and he goes naively 1168 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:06,770 he asked me do you have anything on 1169 00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:09,050 Socorro and I said James I hope you're 1170 00:45:13,570 --> 00:45:11,359 sitting down he goes why I said I have 1171 00:45:15,609 --> 00:45:13,580 original photographs from Project Blue 1172 00:45:16,540 --> 00:45:15,619 Book of the Socorro landing site and he 1173 00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:16,550 goes you're kidding me 1174 00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:18,080 he goes are they clear I said I'm 1175 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:19,609 looking at him right now I said it looks 1176 00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,050 like they were developed yesterday and 1177 00:45:25,150 --> 00:45:23,599 so long story short he was able to get 1178 00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:25,160 those photographs for use for his 1179 00:45:28,030 --> 00:45:26,960 upcoming documentary yeah we're all 1180 00:45:30,579 --> 00:45:28,040 pretty excited about that 1181 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:30,589 I can't wait all that to come out it for 1182 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:31,970 anybody that saw out of the blue I've 1183 00:45:36,339 --> 00:45:34,970 already seen some preliminary clips for 1184 00:45:38,410 --> 00:45:36,349 anybody that saw out of the blue and you 1185 00:45:39,670 --> 00:45:38,420 liked out of the blue that's just an 1186 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:39,680 appetizer for what's to come 1187 00:45:43,150 --> 00:45:41,690 yeah and that's to me that's the best 1188 00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:43,160 UFO film out there 1189 00:45:47,740 --> 00:45:46,400 I that's what I tell people they ask for 1190 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:47,750 a documentary they said you need to see 1191 00:45:54,010 --> 00:45:51,290 out of the blue yeah yeah great well so 1192 00:45:56,370 --> 00:45:54,020 just real quickly you are actually doing 1193 00:46:00,339 --> 00:45:56,380 a little bit of a fun drive to help you 1194 00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:00,349 procure and carry on do you want to talk 1195 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:01,730 about that real quickly and how people 1196 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:03,290 can find that and help you out yes 1197 00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:05,690 actually this just came about over and I 1198 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:07,520 think I told you on the phone a week or 1199 00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:10,010 so ago I was actually visiting my mother 1200 00:46:13,540 --> 00:46:11,510 and family and friends in st. Louis 1201 00:46:16,750 --> 00:46:13,550 Missouri and a friend that actually 1202 00:46:19,390 --> 00:46:16,760 wrote the back cover description that I 1203 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:19,400 used for the back of my book he had 1204 00:46:21,810 --> 00:46:20,290 mentioned the fact 1205 00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:21,820 well you're working with University of 1206 00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:23,710 New Mexico all this materials going to 1207 00:46:28,980 --> 00:46:26,710 go there he goes no they as a library 1208 00:46:30,570 --> 00:46:28,990 are always looking to solicit funds and 1209 00:46:32,310 --> 00:46:30,580 donations he goes have you ever thought 1210 00:46:34,410 --> 00:46:32,320 about doing the same thing he goes you 1211 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:34,420 have your own research library he goes 1212 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:36,490 rather than you funding out of pocket he 1213 00:46:39,590 --> 00:46:37,570 goes I'm sure there's people out there 1214 00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:39,600 that might be willing and able to 1215 00:46:44,610 --> 00:46:41,500 financially assist you with that 1216 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:44,620 so after kind of ruminating over the 1217 00:46:48,270 --> 00:46:46,570 idea I decided why not 1218 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:48,280 yeah I'll throw the net out there and 1219 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:50,530 see if we can garner any funds to kind 1220 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:53,890 of help not with what's here now but 1221 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:55,450 obviously there are always new 1222 00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,770 collections coming up there's 1223 00:47:00,450 --> 00:46:58,240 researchers that are unfortunately 1224 00:47:02,250 --> 00:47:00,460 passing away and the relatives are 1225 00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:02,260 either donating but typically selling 1226 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:05,800 unfortunately their materials so when 1227 00:47:09,530 --> 00:47:08,290 those collections come up I thought it 1228 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:09,540 would be nice if we could start 1229 00:47:16,020 --> 00:47:13,810 developing a fund to have that material 1230 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:16,030 or have that money there for when these 1231 00:47:20,460 --> 00:47:18,730 materials become available and if I 1232 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:20,470 can't personally afford it we can 1233 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:22,330 utilize those funds to secure and 1234 00:47:26,190 --> 00:47:24,610 preserve those collections so that's 1235 00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:26,200 what I did I kind of threw that out 1236 00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:28,750 there and so I started go fund me site 1237 00:47:33,450 --> 00:47:31,600 to try to generate funds for the 1238 00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:33,460 acquisition and preservation of future 1239 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:35,310 collections as they become available 1240 00:47:40,890 --> 00:47:38,170 well you know it's it's very much like I 1241 00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:40,900 do a lot of work with museums and they 1242 00:47:44,580 --> 00:47:42,940 have been effective you know basically 1243 00:47:47,220 --> 00:47:44,590 absolutely people waiting in the wings 1244 00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:47,230 with funds if you know like a van Gogh 1245 00:47:51,780 --> 00:47:49,510 painting comes up or something any time 1246 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:51,790 you know and they exactly know so it's 1247 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:53,770 very and just like that you have to 1248 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:55,450 seize the opportunity these are 1249 00:47:59,340 --> 00:47:57,610 once-in-a-lifetime opportunities much 1250 00:48:01,830 --> 00:47:59,350 like the Project Blue Book material 1251 00:48:04,770 --> 00:48:01,840 that's surfaced it's not going to happen 1252 00:48:06,540 --> 00:48:04,780 again so you know you hope you have the 1253 00:48:09,780 --> 00:48:06,550 funds at the time that these collections 1254 00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,790 become available so we're gonna try it 1255 00:48:14,070 --> 00:48:12,160 it's an experiment it's going to be a 1256 00:48:16,890 --> 00:48:14,080 long-term experiment there's no deadline 1257 00:48:20,490 --> 00:48:16,900 so the GoFundMe site will be there for 1258 00:48:22,170 --> 00:48:20,500 you know future months and years and I 1259 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:22,180 just hope we can continually build up 1260 00:48:26,100 --> 00:48:24,130 the funding and then when these 1261 00:48:28,380 --> 00:48:26,110 collections do become available we will 1262 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:28,390 hopefully be able to provide not just 1263 00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:30,730 money for the purchase the acquisition 1264 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:32,530 but obviously as you and I have talked 1265 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:33,610 about with some of these collections 1266 00:48:38,070 --> 00:48:34,090 I've had to 1267 00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:38,080 a u-haul truck and then drive it back so 1268 00:48:41,850 --> 00:48:40,240 you know there's a lot that goes on in 1269 00:48:43,470 --> 00:48:41,860 the background these these these 1270 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:43,480 materials just don't magically manifest 1271 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:45,250 themselves there's a lot of work and 1272 00:48:52,890 --> 00:48:49,270 time involved and so into that point too 1273 00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,900 I often will ask for volunteers if 1274 00:48:55,830 --> 00:48:53,920 people are interested in coming and 1275 00:48:58,350 --> 00:48:55,840 assisting and doing the research it's 1276 00:49:01,050 --> 00:48:58,360 not just the money but it's the time and 1277 00:49:03,210 --> 00:49:01,060 the labor that's involved and I'm very 1278 00:49:05,070 --> 00:49:03,220 fortunate to have a group of retired 1279 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:05,080 individuals that are interested in the 1280 00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:07,210 subject that live within about five to 1281 00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:09,430 six miles of myself and on a regular 1282 00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:11,470 basis they come over and help with the 1283 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:13,510 scanning the digitization the 1284 00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:15,850 cataloguing of the collection for the 1285 00:49:20,130 --> 00:49:17,710 eventual donation at the University of 1286 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:20,140 New Mexico so there's a lot going on 1287 00:49:26,220 --> 00:49:22,810 here in this little 20 by 22 foot room 1288 00:49:28,820 --> 00:49:26,230 but I'm a busy day we're all scanning 1289 00:49:31,740 --> 00:49:28,830 and filing and in categorizing material 1290 00:49:34,050 --> 00:49:31,750 but as I've often said people always 1291 00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:34,060 joke about my obsessive compulsive 1292 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:36,640 nature as far as organization but when 1293 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:38,770 you in all seriousness when you have 1294 00:49:43,740 --> 00:49:41,410 this much material if it's not organized 1295 00:49:47,340 --> 00:49:43,750 there's no point in having it because if 1296 00:49:49,290 --> 00:49:47,350 you ask for specific material on a given 1297 00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:49,300 case I need to be able to readily 1298 00:49:52,140 --> 00:49:50,800 retrieve it you don't have time to go 1299 00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:52,150 through sixteen four-drawer file 1300 00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:54,730 cabinets so it is incumbent upon myself 1301 00:49:59,550 --> 00:49:56,470 to make sure that this material is not 1302 00:50:02,940 --> 00:49:59,560 only here but organized now when you 1303 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:02,950 were going through the lot that Rob 1304 00:50:07,740 --> 00:50:05,290 Mercer brought to you yes logic blue 1305 00:50:10,290 --> 00:50:07,750 book what you say it's the most exciting 1306 00:50:11,580 --> 00:50:10,300 part of is there one thing that stands 1307 00:50:16,620 --> 00:50:11,590 out to you and what you're looking 1308 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:16,630 through uh I would probably say gosh 1309 00:50:21,060 --> 00:50:18,250 that's such a hard question to answer 1310 00:50:22,830 --> 00:50:21,070 because like look you know like James 1311 00:50:25,110 --> 00:50:22,840 fox news here I was like a kid in the 1312 00:50:27,300 --> 00:50:25,120 candy store opening these boxes in 1313 00:50:29,580 --> 00:50:27,310 literally holding original Project Blue 1314 00:50:31,470 --> 00:50:29,590 Book material like yourself and many 1315 00:50:32,970 --> 00:50:31,480 others and even David O'Leary who you 1316 00:50:34,650 --> 00:50:32,980 heard talking about his interest in the 1317 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:34,660 subject over the years I had read about 1318 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:36,490 Project Blue Book I had seen the 1319 00:50:41,610 --> 00:50:39,130 photographs of Project Blue Book this is 1320 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:41,620 the real McCoy these are the actual 1321 00:50:45,150 --> 00:50:43,570 files these are the actual papers that 1322 00:50:47,730 --> 00:50:45,160 were sitting in right Patterson Air 1323 00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:47,740 Force Base and it really just 1324 00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:49,089 it's almost like an out-of-body 1325 00:50:54,270 --> 00:50:51,910 experience and it really takes you 1326 00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:54,280 outside yourself but I would probably 1327 00:50:58,349 --> 00:50:56,890 say the Socorro case because I was 1328 00:51:00,480 --> 00:50:58,359 always fascinated with that case even 1329 00:51:02,220 --> 00:51:00,490 before I moved to New Mexico and now I 1330 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:02,230 only live about an hour hour and a half 1331 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:04,210 away from Socorro so you know drive 1332 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:05,890 through Socorro on a regular basis on 1333 00:51:11,819 --> 00:51:08,530 business trips but to see the 1334 00:51:15,809 --> 00:51:11,829 photographs to see the unredacted report 1335 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:15,819 and just read the newspaper accounts 1336 00:51:19,950 --> 00:51:17,530 because Bluebook not only did their own 1337 00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:19,960 investigation they scanned and copied a 1338 00:51:24,299 --> 00:51:21,910 lot of the local newspaper articles from 1339 00:51:26,370 --> 00:51:24,309 the time period so I think just to have 1340 00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:26,380 those materials from the New Mexico case 1341 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:29,440 one that I read about as a kid and like 1342 00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:33,010 I said here's the real deal it's not a 1343 00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:34,240 position it's not someone's 1344 00:51:39,569 --> 00:51:36,910 interpretation this is the original case 1345 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:39,579 file now I believe you and I have talked 1346 00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:42,130 about this I went and visited ray 1347 00:51:48,359 --> 00:51:46,000 Stanford and yes he showed me an image 1348 00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:48,369 that I just I'm still baffled by it 1349 00:51:53,250 --> 00:51:50,319 today and he's not really releasing that 1350 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:53,260 image to the public I heard referred to 1351 00:51:56,940 --> 00:51:55,450 it he's very very cautious but I'll tell 1352 00:52:00,569 --> 00:51:56,950 you that's a picture of the dynamite 1353 00:52:01,799 --> 00:52:00,579 Shack just for hit he had a friend stand 1354 00:52:03,870 --> 00:52:01,809 nearby just so he could get the 1355 00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:03,880 reference of height of how they got 1356 00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:07,680 where and all that and as he blew that 1357 00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,440 negative up there's I swear to god it's 1358 00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:13,599 exactly an egg shake craft you can see 1359 00:52:19,650 --> 00:52:17,440 in the sky and I mean it's so perfect 1360 00:52:22,410 --> 00:52:19,660 it's just it's just hard to believe it's 1361 00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:22,420 a it's an image you know and and and I 1362 00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:24,400 would argue that if it came through any 1363 00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:26,079 other source we could raise a skeptical 1364 00:52:29,670 --> 00:52:28,510 eyebrow but Ray Stanford his reputation 1365 00:52:32,220 --> 00:52:29,680 precedes him in the field 1366 00:52:34,770 --> 00:52:32,230 so yeah you know I think anybody that 1367 00:52:36,750 --> 00:52:34,780 knows ray knows his work his reputation 1368 00:52:39,660 --> 00:52:36,760 you know is beyond reproach 1369 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:39,670 right right and that's definitely that 1370 00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:42,490 that one picture alone was worth the 1371 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:45,400 seven hour drive for me down there and 1372 00:52:48,900 --> 00:52:47,530 back yeah I have an open invitation but 1373 00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:48,910 I've been trying to find the funds and 1374 00:52:52,289 --> 00:52:50,319 the free time to actually venture out 1375 00:52:54,150 --> 00:52:52,299 there but yeah I hope I can maybe see 1376 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:54,160 that firsthand eventually myself it's 1377 00:52:59,039 --> 00:52:56,650 well worth it really is yeah all right 1378 00:53:00,780 --> 00:52:59,049 so this is where this is when we 1379 00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:00,790 normally go to break and 1380 00:53:06,540 --> 00:53:03,310 my guess is David Marlar and we'll be 1381 00:53:07,730 --> 00:53:06,550 right back well guess what we're right 1382 00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:07,740 back 1383 00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:14,380 and Dave I would like for you to for you 1384 00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:18,430 to talk about a case that you did a lot 1385 00:53:22,020 --> 00:53:20,710 of work on recently I do want to talk a 1386 00:53:25,290 --> 00:53:22,030 little bit about triangles somewhere 1387 00:53:27,270 --> 00:53:25,300 along the line but the I know you worked 1388 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:27,280 on the Farmington case can we talk about 1389 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:30,610 yes go quickly absolutely you know when 1390 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:33,010 I I finished my book it was published in 1391 00:53:39,420 --> 00:53:36,130 June 2013 and I wrote that when I first 1392 00:53:41,820 --> 00:53:39,430 moved out to New Mexico and as I often 1393 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:41,830 tell my friends it was perfect timing 1394 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:43,570 because I moved out to New Mexico with 1395 00:53:49,410 --> 00:53:46,090 my job and not literally not knowing a 1396 00:53:51,210 --> 00:53:49,420 soul out here and so I thought that the 1397 00:53:52,890 --> 00:53:51,220 timing was perfect I just got back from 1398 00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:52,900 a conference and everyone assumed I had 1399 00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:56,020 written a book on the triangular UFO 1400 00:53:59,700 --> 00:53:57,970 phenomenon so I wrote my book because I 1401 00:54:01,640 --> 00:53:59,710 didn't have any distractions there were 1402 00:54:04,410 --> 00:54:01,650 no friends or family to distract me and 1403 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:04,420 so once I got the book published though 1404 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:06,970 I thought to myself well what's the next 1405 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:10,570 project and I always had those cases 1406 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:13,210 that I had read about but I felt really 1407 00:54:18,180 --> 00:54:15,250 had never been given their due justice 1408 00:54:20,550 --> 00:54:18,190 from an investigative standpoint and so 1409 00:54:22,980 --> 00:54:20,560 now living in New Mexico I thought well 1410 00:54:24,780 --> 00:54:22,990 I go up to Farmington on business now I 1411 00:54:27,210 --> 00:54:24,790 should try to do some of my own research 1412 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:27,220 on that and track down one of the last 1413 00:54:32,790 --> 00:54:29,770 living witnesses he's still with us he's 1414 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:32,800 93 94 years old now and a very 1415 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:34,450 successful businessman up there I've had 1416 00:54:38,610 --> 00:54:36,370 multiple visits and conversations at his 1417 00:54:40,290 --> 00:54:38,620 business as well as his home have 1418 00:54:44,430 --> 00:54:40,300 interviewed him multiple times and 1419 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:44,440 gotten to know him and delving in to the 1420 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:47,050 farmington case actually took me to the 1421 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:50,770 University of Arizona in Tucson where we 1422 00:54:54,810 --> 00:54:52,690 talked about UNM housing a UFO 1423 00:54:57,300 --> 00:54:54,820 collection they have the UFO collection 1424 00:54:59,820 --> 00:54:57,310 of dr. James McDonald Wow in all of its 1425 00:55:01,770 --> 00:54:59,830 these files and it was actually Stan 1426 00:55:04,380 --> 00:55:01,780 Friedman that had suggested I go there 1427 00:55:05,850 --> 00:55:04,390 to see what dr. McDonald had collected 1428 00:55:08,580 --> 00:55:05,860 because he thought he had gathered some 1429 00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:08,590 material on Farmington and no one had 1430 00:55:14,070 --> 00:55:10,510 really shed light on his investigation 1431 00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:14,080 and so I was amazed to see the number of 1432 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:14,470 interview 1433 00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:17,050 that he had conducted and the testimony 1434 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:18,670 that he had received from some of these 1435 00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:22,330 witnesses now the case occurred the 16th 1436 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:26,230 17th and 18th of March 1950 dr. James 1437 00:55:31,050 --> 00:55:28,690 McDonald in the mid to late 60s began 1438 00:55:33,630 --> 00:55:31,060 his investigations so his interviews 1439 00:55:36,570 --> 00:55:33,640 were about 10 to 15 years after the 1440 00:55:38,609 --> 00:55:36,580 sightings had occurred but as you can 1441 00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:38,619 appreciate many more witnesses were 1442 00:55:43,950 --> 00:55:41,260 alive in the mid-60s as opposed to you 1443 00:55:47,370 --> 00:55:43,960 know 2013-2014 when I started doing my 1444 00:55:49,020 --> 00:55:47,380 investigation but in combining that 1445 00:55:50,310 --> 00:55:49,030 information with the information I 1446 00:55:52,109 --> 00:55:50,320 gathered through the University of New 1447 00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:52,119 Mexico going through old newspaper 1448 00:55:59,339 --> 00:55:54,880 archives and then conducting my own 1449 00:56:01,050 --> 00:55:59,349 interview with Marlo Webb who is the one 1450 00:56:03,180 --> 00:56:01,060 of the last witnesses if not be last 1451 00:56:05,609 --> 00:56:03,190 witness that's alive that was mentioned 1452 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:05,619 in the Farmington New Mexico paper where 1453 00:56:10,310 --> 00:56:07,570 it says you know flying saucer Armada 1454 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:10,320 jolts Farmington he is one of the 1455 00:56:15,570 --> 00:56:12,490 individuals mentioned by Maine that was 1456 00:56:18,810 --> 00:56:15,580 interviewed and one other addition to 1457 00:56:19,980 --> 00:56:18,820 that just earlier this year I was able 1458 00:56:23,550 --> 00:56:19,990 to get through a Freedom of Information 1459 00:56:25,859 --> 00:56:23,560 Act request formerly classified Air 1460 00:56:29,250 --> 00:56:25,869 Force files on their Farmington 1461 00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:29,260 investigation and I now have the 1462 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:33,010 unredacted Air Force OSI documents the 1463 00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:35,410 reference Marlowe by name as well as 1464 00:56:40,890 --> 00:56:37,140 another witness that we didn't have 1465 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:40,900 who's name was Hugh LAN pace and that 1466 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:42,490 was the name we didn't have previously 1467 00:56:46,740 --> 00:56:44,170 but now that I was able to get these 1468 00:56:49,230 --> 00:56:46,750 documents Declassified we now have a new 1469 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:49,240 witness named based on my research he 1470 00:56:53,220 --> 00:56:51,970 has long since passed away what's 1471 00:56:55,410 --> 00:56:53,230 interesting though I always like to 1472 00:56:56,970 --> 00:56:55,420 underscore this a lot of people there's 1473 00:56:59,550 --> 00:56:56,980 a lot of critic critics out there as we 1474 00:57:01,680 --> 00:56:59,560 know Martin even within the UFO field a 1475 00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:01,690 lot of people like to cast stones that 1476 00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:03,760 researchers doing good work the one 1477 00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,530 thing I'd like to mention just to kind 1478 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:07,119 of counter some of the the comments I've 1479 00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:08,890 seen on the internet people say well 1480 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:10,480 this happened in 1950 why are we 1481 00:57:16,109 --> 00:57:13,570 rehashing these old cases because some 1482 00:57:19,079 --> 00:57:16,119 of these documents have only now been 1483 00:57:20,790 --> 00:57:19,089 Declassified these files were just 1484 00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:20,800 Declassified last year but they weren't 1485 00:57:27,990 --> 00:57:22,540 resurrected until I filed my FOIA 1486 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:28,000 request 1950 to 2017 it took that 1487 00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:29,530 many years to get these files 1488 00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:32,260 Declassified and only then do we get new 1489 00:57:37,650 --> 00:57:34,240 insights new aspects into these 1490 00:57:39,420 --> 00:57:37,660 investigations and so that is why much 1491 00:57:41,490 --> 00:57:39,430 like the Battle of LA that we may talk 1492 00:57:43,890 --> 00:57:41,500 about later these files were 1493 00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:43,900 Declassified Battle of la occurred in 1494 00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:46,390 February 42 it was through the research 1495 00:57:51,420 --> 00:57:48,370 efforts of Barry Greenwood in the late 1496 00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:51,430 70s in early to mid 80s before we had 1497 00:57:56,370 --> 00:57:54,490 these documents released Wow so it's 1498 00:57:57,810 --> 00:57:56,380 mainly because of that when new 1499 00:57:59,700 --> 00:57:57,820 documents when new evidence comes 1500 00:58:02,520 --> 00:57:59,710 forward we have to reinvestigate much 1501 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:02,530 like a murder case a cold case if new 1502 00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:04,240 information comes to light we need to go 1503 00:58:08,670 --> 00:58:04,960 back 1504 00:58:11,190 --> 00:58:08,680 see how does this new information 1505 00:58:14,850 --> 00:58:11,200 correlate with what we thought we knew 1506 00:58:17,310 --> 00:58:14,860 at the time I have the image related to 1507 00:58:19,710 --> 00:58:17,320 Farmington up on YouTube can you 1508 00:58:21,390 --> 00:58:19,720 describe it's really bizarre I mean some 1509 00:58:24,630 --> 00:58:21,400 of them really do look like discs 1510 00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:24,640 there's a whole bunch of them I know you 1511 00:58:29,940 --> 00:58:27,790 kids that is that a photo yeah it's a 1512 00:58:32,700 --> 00:58:29,950 photo of looking up and there's a 1513 00:58:34,110 --> 00:58:32,710 grouping of objects that look like discs 1514 00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:34,120 black-and-white photo yeah 1515 00:58:39,930 --> 00:58:36,880 is it a somewhat like D shaped formation 1516 00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:39,940 it's correct okay that actually I did 1517 00:58:45,450 --> 00:58:43,390 extensive research on and I can say this 1518 00:58:47,370 --> 00:58:45,460 with certainty I'm the only one that's 1519 00:58:50,310 --> 00:58:47,380 able been able to really truly delve 1520 00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:50,320 into that with the additional assistance 1521 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:53,710 of Juan Vincente balusters Olmos 1522 00:58:59,880 --> 00:58:56,770 Spanish ufologists that has done his UFO 1523 00:59:02,880 --> 00:58:59,890 cap catalog of cataloging UFO photos 1524 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:02,890 over the years and if people go to my 1525 00:59:07,860 --> 00:59:05,050 website they can go to my Farmington 1526 00:59:11,490 --> 00:59:07,870 research tab and there's a link to a 1527 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:11,500 blog that he wrote on researching that 1528 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:13,810 photograph and with some of the 1529 00:59:18,450 --> 00:59:16,330 assistance that I provided that had been 1530 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:18,460 purported to have been a photograph of 1531 00:59:23,490 --> 00:59:21,490 the Farmington Armada but based on all 1532 00:59:25,860 --> 00:59:23,500 of my research I think I've completely 1533 00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:25,870 debunked it in so far is not being 1534 00:59:30,030 --> 00:59:28,270 associated with Farmington that's not to 1535 00:59:32,310 --> 00:59:30,040 say it might not be a legitimate UFO 1536 00:59:35,610 --> 00:59:32,320 photograph and the reason I say that is 1537 00:59:37,350 --> 00:59:35,620 I had analyzed that photograph as far as 1538 00:59:40,230 --> 00:59:37,360 trying to delve into the history and 1539 00:59:41,490 --> 00:59:40,240 where it originated from and it took me 1540 00:59:43,530 --> 00:59:41,500 all the way back to a news 1541 00:59:46,170 --> 00:59:43,540 paper which again the audience can read 1542 00:59:48,180 --> 00:59:46,180 about on my website it was an Irish 1543 00:59:49,830 --> 00:59:48,190 newspaper that apparently was only 1544 00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:49,840 published for a year called the teenage 1545 00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:52,960 times and it took me a year and a half 1546 00:59:57,570 --> 00:59:55,690 to track this newspaper down one of the 1547 00:59:59,850 --> 00:59:57,580 reasons it was so difficult it was only 1548 01:00:02,520 --> 00:59:59,860 published for a year but it was never 1549 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:02,530 Micra filmed and it was never digitized 1550 01:00:08,220 --> 01:00:06,010 and so I had to start going to 1551 01:00:10,140 --> 01:00:08,230 individual libraries in Ireland where I 1552 01:00:12,570 --> 01:00:10,150 had kind of zeroed in on where it 1553 01:00:14,670 --> 01:00:12,580 apparently originated from because I 1554 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:14,680 have an original 1950 copy of that 1555 01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:17,050 photograph from the London Times with 1556 01:00:20,670 --> 01:00:19,030 the news teletype glued to the back much 1557 01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:20,680 like the Battle of la auto that we may 1558 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:22,960 talk about later and again this 1559 01:00:27,060 --> 01:00:24,610 underscores the importance of going to 1560 01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:27,070 the original documents I think it's very 1561 01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:29,920 important to do that and long story 1562 01:00:36,170 --> 01:00:34,030 short it was actually in the National 1563 01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:36,180 Library in Dublin Ireland they had 1564 01:00:42,030 --> 01:00:39,340 original newspaper hard copies of the 1565 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:42,040 newspapers I paid again here's where the 1566 01:00:46,140 --> 01:00:43,930 money comes into play for researchers 1567 01:00:49,710 --> 01:00:46,150 out there I had to pay to get that 1568 01:00:52,410 --> 01:00:49,720 newspaper digitized they sent me the 1569 01:00:57,210 --> 01:00:52,420 digital copies of which I have a copy on 1570 01:00:58,980 --> 01:00:57,220 my Farmington report but what's 1571 01:01:02,760 --> 01:00:58,990 interesting about that the reason I say 1572 01:01:05,070 --> 01:01:02,770 it was debunked for two reasons one the 1573 01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:05,080 witnesses all attest to the fact that in 1574 01:01:09,630 --> 01:01:06,790 Farmington on those three days that the 1575 01:01:12,180 --> 01:01:09,640 UFOs were sighted it was clear skies or 1576 01:01:14,100 --> 01:01:12,190 a light scattering of cirrus clouds if 1577 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:14,110 you look at that photograph there 1578 01:01:18,540 --> 01:01:16,930 cumulus clouds in the photo so it 1579 01:01:21,060 --> 01:01:18,550 doesn't conform to the meteorological 1580 01:01:22,260 --> 01:01:21,070 reports and data from that time period 1581 01:01:25,620 --> 01:01:22,270 in Farmington 1582 01:01:27,870 --> 01:01:25,630 another reason Wendell Stevens the late 1583 01:01:29,430 --> 01:01:27,880 Wendell Stevens had a copy of that 1584 01:01:32,010 --> 01:01:29,440 photograph and on the back was written 1585 01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,020 Farmington New Mexico and in a 1586 01:01:37,260 --> 01:01:34,240 documentary from the 90s he relays the 1587 01:01:39,780 --> 01:01:37,270 story that it was sold to him by a 1588 01:01:42,660 --> 01:01:39,790 gentleman stating that this was the 1589 01:01:45,810 --> 01:01:42,670 Farmington UFOs and that this photograph 1590 01:01:47,580 --> 01:01:45,820 was secreted out of Farmington before 1591 01:01:49,260 --> 01:01:47,590 the Air Force agents swooped in and 1592 01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:49,270 confiscated all the film and cameras 1593 01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:52,630 well I've talked to Marlowe Webb and he 1594 01:01:55,290 --> 01:01:54,610 laughed at the idea that agents swooped 1595 01:01:57,930 --> 01:01:55,300 in and 1596 01:01:59,700 --> 01:01:57,940 confiscated film and cameras in fact he 1597 01:02:01,440 --> 01:01:59,710 remarked he goes they didn't express 1598 01:02:03,540 --> 01:02:01,450 that much interest they simply came into 1599 01:02:05,340 --> 01:02:03,550 town did an interview with me and egos 1600 01:02:07,470 --> 01:02:05,350 and he even made this comment which I 1601 01:02:09,540 --> 01:02:07,480 thought was funny Martin he said he goes 1602 01:02:11,730 --> 01:02:09,550 they interviewed me but not to the the 1603 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:11,740 scope and depth that you did he goes you 1604 01:02:15,390 --> 01:02:13,090 asked way more questions than the Air 1605 01:02:16,830 --> 01:02:15,400 Force investigators asked he said but 1606 01:02:18,420 --> 01:02:16,840 they just asked a few questions went 1607 01:02:22,790 --> 01:02:18,430 around and they they apparently wrote a 1608 01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:22,800 report and but what was interesting is 1609 01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:25,570 the story that was related to when dehl 1610 01:02:32,130 --> 01:02:28,450 was that this photograph was like I said 1611 01:02:33,930 --> 01:02:32,140 taken out of Farmington and later in the 1612 01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:33,940 weeks and months to follow was published 1613 01:02:39,540 --> 01:02:37,510 in the Durango Colorado newspaper well 1614 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:39,550 there's the lead that's easy to follow 1615 01:02:42,900 --> 01:02:41,290 up on me and some of my research 1616 01:02:45,420 --> 01:02:42,910 colleagues took a weekend trip up to 1617 01:02:48,090 --> 01:02:45,430 Durango Colorado and there were two 1618 01:02:51,150 --> 01:02:48,100 newspapers published back in 1950 March 1619 01:02:52,110 --> 01:02:51,160 of 1950 in Durango and luckily we 1620 01:02:54,990 --> 01:02:52,120 thought we were gonna have to go through 1621 01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:55,000 hours of microfilm they had digitized 1622 01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:57,370 the microfilm into PDF so they were able 1623 01:03:02,310 --> 01:02:58,720 to give me a year's worth of both 1624 01:03:04,110 --> 01:03:02,320 newspaper both before and after the 1625 01:03:05,580 --> 01:03:04,120 Farmington sightings which we were able 1626 01:03:08,250 --> 01:03:05,590 to bring back to the research room here 1627 01:03:10,650 --> 01:03:08,260 and casually review on our computers and 1628 01:03:12,870 --> 01:03:10,660 no photograph ever appeared in any of 1629 01:03:14,190 --> 01:03:12,880 the newspapers so the story that was 1630 01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:14,200 relayed to wind al 1631 01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:15,910 I think we've thoroughly debunked that 1632 01:03:20,100 --> 01:03:17,800 there was no no merit to the story I 1633 01:03:22,980 --> 01:03:20,110 think it was a story built up to sell 1634 01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:22,990 when dehl those photos or the photo yeah 1635 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:24,700 and I always like to say I don't think 1636 01:03:29,580 --> 01:03:26,650 when Dell was was dishonest or 1637 01:03:31,110 --> 01:03:29,590 disingenuous in relaying that story but 1638 01:03:35,820 --> 01:03:31,120 that was the story as it was relayed to 1639 01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:35,830 him okay yep well I had that image up 1640 01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:38,970 there for now see how that can happen 1641 01:03:42,900 --> 01:03:41,110 but I think it's important I think it's 1642 01:03:46,050 --> 01:03:42,910 important not only to verify information 1643 01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:46,060 but to vet the information and determine 1644 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:47,950 that some information may not be 1645 01:03:52,110 --> 01:03:49,690 legitimate I mean it gets us closer to 1646 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:52,120 the truth right right and I always 1647 01:03:56,370 --> 01:03:54,250 appreciate that and appreciate your work 1648 01:03:59,490 --> 01:03:56,380 because that's your you know that's what 1649 01:04:02,010 --> 01:03:59,500 you do so anyway the lines are open if 1650 01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:02,020 anyone would like to call in that number 1651 01:04:07,380 --> 01:04:05,410 is on the screen on YouTube and feel 1652 01:04:09,060 --> 01:04:07,390 free to give a give a call if you have a 1653 01:04:12,690 --> 01:04:09,070 question for our guests 1654 01:04:15,810 --> 01:04:12,700 I'd like to move on to the Battle of LA 1655 01:04:19,530 --> 01:04:15,820 that's yes that's a real fascinating one 1656 01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:19,540 because this is this is actually pre you 1657 01:04:24,420 --> 01:04:21,930 know what we consider the modern UFO era 1658 01:04:26,220 --> 01:04:24,430 one of the reasons I like the case so 1659 01:04:28,410 --> 01:04:26,230 much I always like to say it was kind of 1660 01:04:29,970 --> 01:04:28,420 a period of innocence as far as UFOs go 1661 01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:29,980 because we hadn't even invented the term 1662 01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:32,350 yet it wasn't in our mindset in our 1663 01:04:39,300 --> 01:04:36,580 mindset or zeitgeist so I really find it 1664 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:39,310 interesting one for that reason but also 1665 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:41,770 as I mentioned earlier Martin it was one 1666 01:04:46,530 --> 01:04:43,690 of those cases that I felt we heard 1667 01:04:48,780 --> 01:04:46,540 about we saw the photo but I really felt 1668 01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:48,790 no one had really truly done the deep 1669 01:04:52,410 --> 01:04:51,130 work that needed to be done let's again 1670 01:04:55,110 --> 01:04:52,420 let's get to the heart of the matter 1671 01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:55,120 what really transpired that morning in 1672 01:05:01,980 --> 01:04:59,680 February of 1942 and by the way on 1673 01:05:04,410 --> 01:05:01,990 YouTube I will be showing these are 1674 01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:04,420 crystal clear pictures unlike any that 1675 01:05:09,090 --> 01:05:06,970 you would see and the newspaper clips 1676 01:05:13,260 --> 01:05:09,100 can you tell the listening audience 1677 01:05:15,030 --> 01:05:13,270 where you actually got this yes well 1678 01:05:16,380 --> 01:05:15,040 there might be a couple that they're 1679 01:05:18,750 --> 01:05:16,390 going to see there there's a there's 1680 01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:18,760 some that are slightly darker in nature 1681 01:05:26,010 --> 01:05:22,570 and those are actually high-resolution 1682 01:05:29,610 --> 01:05:26,020 scans off the original negative that is 1683 01:05:31,290 --> 01:05:29,620 at the Los Angeles Times and I received 1684 01:05:34,050 --> 01:05:31,300 that through the cooperation of Ben 1685 01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:34,060 Hansen Ben and I were working on a 1686 01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:35,770 Smithsonian Channel documentary series 1687 01:05:42,060 --> 01:05:39,250 on UFOs UFOs Declassified and they had 1688 01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:42,070 met with Ben the day prior to coming to 1689 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:45,760 my home and they had actually been at 1690 01:05:51,150 --> 01:05:48,010 the archives with Simon Elliot who is 1691 01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:51,160 the photo archivist at the Los Angeles 1692 01:05:55,740 --> 01:05:54,130 Times and what was interesting is while 1693 01:05:57,390 --> 01:05:55,750 they were filming that segment with Ben 1694 01:06:00,180 --> 01:05:57,400 literally the day before they came to my 1695 01:06:01,740 --> 01:06:00,190 home here in Albuquerque and this is in 1696 01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:01,750 the documentary for those that can go 1697 01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:04,270 look up the episode while they're 1698 01:06:08,130 --> 01:06:06,610 filming Simon Elliot the archivist 1699 01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:08,140 realized something he had never noticed 1700 01:06:12,810 --> 01:06:10,390 before specific to that negative that 1701 01:06:15,030 --> 01:06:12,820 you're seeing and it was that the notch 1702 01:06:17,700 --> 01:06:15,040 pattern on the side of the negative 1703 01:06:19,950 --> 01:06:17,710 didn't match or conform to any of the 1704 01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:19,960 tens of thousands of negatives that are 1705 01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:21,850 housed there that Simon Elliot is 1706 01:06:25,859 --> 01:06:22,960 curator for 1707 01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:25,869 and each each type of film back in that 1708 01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:28,690 day had a notch code or notch pattern on 1709 01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:30,700 the side of the negative it was kind of 1710 01:06:34,319 --> 01:06:32,290 a brand if you will like what we do with 1711 01:06:35,730 --> 01:06:34,329 Catholic where you could look at that 1712 01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:35,740 notch code and you would know that's 1713 01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:38,319 code of you know Kodachrome film blah 1714 01:06:42,660 --> 01:06:40,450 blah blah it would give you an exact 1715 01:06:46,020 --> 01:06:42,670 indicator of what type of film was used 1716 01:06:48,839 --> 01:06:46,030 and the notch code didn't conform to 1717 01:06:49,890 --> 01:06:48,849 what all the LA Times photographers used 1718 01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:49,900 at the time 1719 01:06:55,020 --> 01:06:51,940 Simon Eliot states matter of fact they 1720 01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:55,030 all used the same film stock and on 1721 01:07:00,059 --> 01:06:57,280 camera they asked him well what does 1722 01:07:02,700 --> 01:07:00,069 that mean he said well it's suggested 1723 01:07:05,790 --> 01:07:02,710 that this photograph was not taken by an 1724 01:07:08,730 --> 01:07:05,800 LA Times photographer now fast-forward 1725 01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:08,740 24 hours Wayne Abbot the producer in the 1726 01:07:12,599 --> 01:07:10,930 film crew come to my home and when they 1727 01:07:14,790 --> 01:07:12,609 walk into my research room not the one 1728 01:07:17,250 --> 01:07:14,800 we have today but the research room at 1729 01:07:21,210 --> 01:07:17,260 the time I have an original photograph 1730 01:07:22,740 --> 01:07:21,220 from February 25th 1942 and on the back 1731 01:07:24,299 --> 01:07:22,750 of it and I think it's one of the images 1732 01:07:27,299 --> 01:07:24,309 you may have there is the original 1733 01:07:31,500 --> 01:07:27,309 teletype the news teletype from February 1734 01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:31,510 25th 1942 and I had an attribution on 1735 01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:34,210 the frame stating original photograph of 1736 01:07:38,579 --> 01:07:36,970 the Battle of LA and he says so what 1737 01:07:40,740 --> 01:07:38,589 you're telling me is this is an original 1738 01:07:42,450 --> 01:07:40,750 I said yes I said based on all my 1739 01:07:45,030 --> 01:07:42,460 research and I took the photograph out 1740 01:07:47,670 --> 01:07:45,040 so we could see the stamp indicating 1741 01:07:49,349 --> 01:07:47,680 property of Associated Press and he 1742 01:07:51,569 --> 01:07:49,359 could see the original news teletype and 1743 01:07:53,940 --> 01:07:51,579 you could literally see wheels turning 1744 01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:53,950 in his head and he goes I need to show 1745 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:55,510 you the film footage we shot just 1746 01:07:59,880 --> 01:07:57,010 yesterday with them and with the 1747 01:08:03,240 --> 01:07:59,890 archivist at the LA Times and so with 1748 01:08:05,549 --> 01:08:03,250 the testimony of Simon Elliot stating 1749 01:08:08,670 --> 01:08:05,559 that the negative is suggestive it's not 1750 01:08:11,180 --> 01:08:08,680 an LA Times photo and with the one I had 1751 01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:11,190 showing property of Associated Press 1752 01:08:17,340 --> 01:08:14,130 Associated Press caution used credit 1753 01:08:19,559 --> 01:08:17,350 when we connected the dots we realize 1754 01:08:21,740 --> 01:08:19,569 that the famous photograph was probably 1755 01:08:24,419 --> 01:08:21,750 not taken by an LA Times photographer 1756 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:24,429 rather it was taken by an Associated 1757 01:08:30,059 --> 01:08:27,850 Press photographer well the long story 1758 01:08:31,620 --> 01:08:30,069 short how I acquired the photo that I 1759 01:08:34,950 --> 01:08:31,630 have in my possession which is hanging 1760 01:08:36,630 --> 01:08:34,960 up just to my left here it was acquired 1761 01:08:39,870 --> 01:08:36,640 on eBay 1762 01:08:42,540 --> 01:08:39,880 by an individual selling historic news 1763 01:08:44,250 --> 01:08:42,550 photos and again it's one it's almost 1764 01:08:45,780 --> 01:08:44,260 like the Bluebook photos you never know 1765 01:08:48,690 --> 01:08:45,790 where this material is going to turn up 1766 01:08:50,190 --> 01:08:48,700 but I would argue that in collecting 1767 01:08:53,580 --> 01:08:50,200 this original material it gives us 1768 01:08:55,230 --> 01:08:53,590 investigative leads in case in point the 1769 01:08:58,020 --> 01:08:55,240 first question I asked this individual 1770 01:08:59,820 --> 01:08:58,030 how in the you-know-what did you obtain 1771 01:09:02,100 --> 01:08:59,830 this photograph I'm really curious 1772 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:02,110 especially once I received it and I 1773 01:09:05,610 --> 01:09:03,970 could see it had all the proper earmarks 1774 01:09:07,770 --> 01:09:05,620 of an original photo from that time 1775 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:07,780 period with the news teletype and I have 1776 01:09:12,180 --> 01:09:09,610 other news wire photos from that time 1777 01:09:14,580 --> 01:09:12,190 for comparison and I looked at it and he 1778 01:09:17,090 --> 01:09:14,590 told me well Dave he goes my wife and I 1779 01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:17,100 we live in the greater LA area so again 1780 01:09:22,290 --> 01:09:19,570 he's in that general vicinity where the 1781 01:09:24,270 --> 01:09:22,300 photo would have been taken he says we 1782 01:09:26,630 --> 01:09:24,280 went to one of many estate sales and 1783 01:09:29,490 --> 01:09:26,640 yard sales on on a Saturday morning and 1784 01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:29,500 my wife was looking at some materials 1785 01:09:34,410 --> 01:09:31,600 and he goes this this estate sale was 1786 01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:34,420 not many miles from where we lived and I 1787 01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:36,130 was kind of bored and I was just walking 1788 01:09:40,770 --> 01:09:38,650 around and my focus was drawn to two 1789 01:09:42,390 --> 01:09:40,780 large file boxes sitting underneath a 1790 01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:42,400 folding table sitting in their front 1791 01:09:46,830 --> 01:09:45,010 yard and I crouched down and I start 1792 01:09:49,020 --> 01:09:46,840 going through very similar to what you 1793 01:09:52,770 --> 01:09:49,030 see here just these brown file folders 1794 01:09:56,490 --> 01:09:52,780 and he said as I'm going through it each 1795 01:10:00,810 --> 01:09:56,500 individual file had a newswire black and 1796 01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:00,820 white gloss photo of either Hollywood 1797 01:10:06,690 --> 01:10:03,610 celebrity World War two photo but it was 1798 01:10:09,090 --> 01:10:06,700 circa early 40s to about mid late 50s 1799 01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:09,100 and on the back of each one was the news 1800 01:10:13,380 --> 01:10:11,290 teletype and he goes I'm going through 1801 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:13,390 this it was like a time capsule and I 1802 01:10:17,100 --> 01:10:15,130 asked the young lady that was operating 1803 01:10:19,470 --> 01:10:17,110 the estate sale he goes ma'am if I don't 1804 01:10:22,020 --> 01:10:19,480 know Miami asking how did you acquire 1805 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:22,030 all these photos and very innocently 1806 01:10:26,580 --> 01:10:23,650 enough she looks at him and says oh 1807 01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:26,590 those belong to my grandfather he was a 1808 01:10:32,690 --> 01:10:29,770 photographer for The Associated Press so 1809 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:32,700 this essentially was his portfolio of 1810 01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:35,530 decades long photographs he had taken 1811 01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:37,930 while being an Associated Press 1812 01:10:43,260 --> 01:10:41,410 photographer and that led through 1813 01:10:44,730 --> 01:10:43,270 through the efforts of the individual 1814 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:44,740 who I bought him from he assisted in 1815 01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:46,930 getting in touch with the family we 1816 01:10:52,649 --> 01:10:50,320 found out who the photographer was 1817 01:10:55,229 --> 01:10:52,659 also by acquiring this original photo 1818 01:10:57,029 --> 01:10:55,239 and it's a question in Martin you're 1819 01:10:58,500 --> 01:10:57,039 familiar with the case it's something 1820 01:11:00,209 --> 01:10:58,510 that no one really ever asked well who 1821 01:11:01,020 --> 01:11:00,219 took the famous photo who was the 1822 01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:01,030 photographer 1823 01:11:04,740 --> 01:11:02,409 I think that's an element that I've 1824 01:11:07,020 --> 01:11:04,750 always wanted to find out myself and so 1825 01:11:09,180 --> 01:11:07,030 long story short the name of the 1826 01:11:10,830 --> 01:11:09,190 photographer and I'm about 90% certain 1827 01:11:15,089 --> 01:11:10,840 he's the one that took the famous photo 1828 01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:15,099 his name was IRA W Goldner and he was a 1829 01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:17,369 photographer for The Associated Press in 1830 01:11:22,140 --> 01:11:19,449 contacting the family I was able to get 1831 01:11:24,899 --> 01:11:22,150 family photos of him so I have pictures 1832 01:11:27,660 --> 01:11:24,909 or photos of the photographer I have 1833 01:11:30,779 --> 01:11:27,670 photos and copies of his photographic 1834 01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:30,789 credentials his press passes from all 1835 01:11:36,180 --> 01:11:33,369 the way from the 1930s up to the 1950s 1836 01:11:38,490 --> 01:11:36,190 and he was a prolific photographer who 1837 01:11:40,919 --> 01:11:38,500 happened to have a studio in Hollywood 1838 01:11:43,470 --> 01:11:40,929 California and he lived in the greater 1839 01:11:45,149 --> 01:11:43,480 LA area at the time and when I started 1840 01:11:47,729 --> 01:11:45,159 doing research trying to tie him 1841 01:11:52,379 --> 01:11:47,739 specifically to the Battle of LA and so 1842 01:11:55,109 --> 01:11:52,389 then if your audience googles IRA W 1843 01:11:56,879 --> 01:11:55,119 Goldner you're not gonna find many hits 1844 01:12:00,660 --> 01:11:56,889 on the internet but what you will find 1845 01:12:03,330 --> 01:12:00,670 are two photographs from The Associated 1846 01:12:05,759 --> 01:12:03,340 Press crediting IRA gold nur as the 1847 01:12:08,549 --> 01:12:05,769 photographer one is very important 1848 01:12:11,009 --> 01:12:08,559 because it shows Japanese citizens being 1849 01:12:13,979 --> 01:12:11,019 rounded up after the attack on Pearl 1850 01:12:18,390 --> 01:12:13,989 Harbor one of them is dated I believe 1851 01:12:21,419 --> 01:12:18,400 February 10th 1942 and what's important 1852 01:12:24,149 --> 01:12:21,429 about that it shows Los Angeles police 1853 01:12:28,140 --> 01:12:24,159 rounding up Japanese citizens and he's 1854 01:12:31,140 --> 01:12:28,150 taking the photo so it puts him in LA in 1855 01:12:33,419 --> 01:12:31,150 February 1942 just days before the 1856 01:12:35,879 --> 01:12:33,429 famous at the Battle of LA incident I 1857 01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:35,889 mean so it's just connecting these dots 1858 01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:39,610 you know as a researcher and trying to 1859 01:12:44,339 --> 01:12:42,130 tie all this together but I would say 1860 01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:44,349 I'm about 90% certain it was IRA golden 1861 01:12:48,330 --> 01:12:46,329 er that was the photographer that took 1862 01:12:49,740 --> 01:12:48,340 the famous photograph it sounds like a 1863 01:12:51,569 --> 01:12:49,750 lot of fun what you're doing 1864 01:12:53,250 --> 01:12:51,579 actually I just wish I could do it 1865 01:12:54,990 --> 01:12:53,260 full-time I mean you know we all work 1866 01:12:57,299 --> 01:12:55,000 full-time jobs there's not many people 1867 01:13:00,839 --> 01:12:57,309 doing this full-time that can actually 1868 01:13:03,930 --> 01:13:00,849 afford it but I'm just so excited to be 1869 01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:03,940 able to delve into these cases 1870 01:13:08,220 --> 01:13:05,770 even rich dolan you know the who 1871 01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:08,230 published my book rich came up to me 1872 01:13:11,220 --> 01:13:09,760 after I think the Battle of LA or 1873 01:13:13,470 --> 01:13:11,230 Farmington incident that I lectured on 1874 01:13:16,170 --> 01:13:13,480 at a conference we were both that and he 1875 01:13:18,420 --> 01:13:16,180 remarked amigos you know I think you've 1876 01:13:20,820 --> 01:13:18,430 really found your niche he goes you have 1877 01:13:23,580 --> 01:13:20,830 the uncanny ability to take a case a 1878 01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:23,590 historical UFO case where we thought we 1879 01:13:27,450 --> 01:13:25,570 knew all about it but then you take it 1880 01:13:29,310 --> 01:13:27,460 to the next level and so coming from 1881 01:13:31,050 --> 01:13:29,320 rich I take that as a compliment yeah 1882 01:13:33,330 --> 01:13:31,060 yeah that's good that's great 1883 01:13:36,540 --> 01:13:33,340 it's just I was just thinking some of 1884 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:36,550 the listeners may not really know much 1885 01:13:41,310 --> 01:13:38,770 about the Battle of Alex can you kind of 1886 01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,320 go over what actually purportedly 1887 01:13:46,620 --> 01:13:43,840 happened at the time absolutely 1888 01:13:48,990 --> 01:13:46,630 well we have to keep in mind let's set 1889 01:13:52,770 --> 01:13:49,000 the time period this is just two months 1890 01:13:55,170 --> 01:13:52,780 after the attack on Pearl Harbor so many 1891 01:13:57,780 --> 01:13:55,180 people especially the military were 1892 01:14:00,450 --> 01:13:57,790 fully anticipating a mainland assault on 1893 01:14:04,050 --> 01:14:00,460 the California coast and so just to kind 1894 01:14:05,939 --> 01:14:04,060 of paint the backdrop in in and around 1895 01:14:07,500 --> 01:14:05,949 the Greater Los Angeles area extending 1896 01:14:09,780 --> 01:14:07,510 all the way down the entire southern 1897 01:14:11,610 --> 01:14:09,790 coast of California there were any 1898 01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:11,620 aircraft gun emplacements there were 1899 01:14:16,140 --> 01:14:14,250 searchlights that were set up there were 1900 01:14:17,459 --> 01:14:16,150 individuals that I had talked to they 1901 01:14:19,020 --> 01:14:17,469 actually lived there at the time where 1902 01:14:21,870 --> 01:14:19,030 they remember leaving their elementary 1903 01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:21,880 school in seeing gun emplacements set up 1904 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:25,120 in and around the city and so the 1905 01:14:28,770 --> 01:14:27,130 anticipation was that the Japanese it 1906 01:14:30,270 --> 01:14:28,780 wasn't matter if if they would attack it 1907 01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:30,280 was just really a question of when and 1908 01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:32,770 so they were poised and ready and as I 1909 01:14:37,410 --> 01:14:34,980 say in my lectures I think really 1910 01:14:40,709 --> 01:14:37,420 vigilance was the key word you know 1911 01:14:43,860 --> 01:14:40,719 being vigilant in in preparation for the 1912 01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:43,870 Japanese military doing a mainland 1913 01:14:48,209 --> 01:14:45,610 assault or attempting a mainland assault 1914 01:14:50,490 --> 01:14:48,219 because historically they were sweeping 1915 01:14:52,380 --> 01:14:50,500 across the Pacific island hopping you 1916 01:14:54,870 --> 01:14:52,390 know continuing to secure Island after 1917 01:14:56,850 --> 01:14:54,880 Island basically pushing towards the 1918 01:14:59,040 --> 01:14:56,860 east put you know put pushing in our 1919 01:15:01,439 --> 01:14:59,050 direction and so that was the backdrop 1920 01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:01,449 again we weren't thinking UFOs we 1921 01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:02,800 weren't thinking aliens we weren't 1922 01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:05,530 thinking flying saucers and as we 1923 01:15:10,860 --> 01:15:07,330 continued to talk about this case I'm 1924 01:15:14,459 --> 01:15:10,870 not saying it was aliens or UFOs but I 1925 01:15:16,919 --> 01:15:14,469 do state this case I believe is truly a 1926 01:15:17,549 --> 01:15:16,929 UFO case and in the sense it's an 1927 01:15:20,609 --> 01:15:17,559 unidentified 1928 01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:20,619 flying object because when I've examined 1929 01:15:24,299 --> 01:15:22,239 this case and looked at all the prosaic 1930 01:15:25,889 --> 01:15:24,309 explanations none of them seem to fit 1931 01:15:30,389 --> 01:15:25,899 all of the data but we'll talk a little 1932 01:15:31,739 --> 01:15:30,399 bit more about that but just about 36 1933 01:15:34,619 --> 01:15:31,749 hours before the incident we're gonna 1934 01:15:36,359 --> 01:15:34,629 talk about a Japanese submarine have 1935 01:15:39,059 --> 01:15:36,369 surfaced just off the coast of Santa 1936 01:15:42,569 --> 01:15:39,069 Barbara and fired a number of deck 1937 01:15:45,559 --> 01:15:42,579 shells into an area known as the galleta 1938 01:15:49,349 --> 01:15:45,569 oil fields and this was an oil refinery 1939 01:15:51,359 --> 01:15:49,359 area and they had attempted to fire and 1940 01:15:57,329 --> 01:15:51,369 cause some damage they only caused about 1941 01:16:00,209 --> 01:15:57,339 five hundred dollars in damage nf the 1942 01:16:01,559 --> 01:16:00,219 submarine went ahead and went back under 1943 01:16:04,889 --> 01:16:01,569 the water and headed back out to sea 1944 01:16:07,290 --> 01:16:04,899 about 36 hours after this the entire 1945 01:16:09,209 --> 01:16:07,300 Southern California area from Los 1946 01:16:12,149 --> 01:16:09,219 Angeles all the way down was plunged 1947 01:16:14,279 --> 01:16:12,159 into a blackout now skeptics always like 1948 01:16:16,349 --> 01:16:14,289 to attack this case and you know 1949 01:16:18,270 --> 01:16:16,359 remarket the folly of UFO researchers 1950 01:16:20,069 --> 01:16:18,280 and believers for calling this UFO case 1951 01:16:22,529 --> 01:16:20,079 one of the thing they never talk about 1952 01:16:25,619 --> 01:16:22,539 and I emphasize this in my lectures one 1953 01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:25,629 thing they never address is why did this 1954 01:16:31,399 --> 01:16:27,760 blackout occur and why did this UFO 1955 01:16:33,869 --> 01:16:31,409 sighting happen well what precipitated 1956 01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:33,879 everything regarding the bat of Battle 1957 01:16:38,309 --> 01:16:36,010 of LA is something that the skeptics 1958 01:16:40,949 --> 01:16:38,319 never talk about and that's namely a 1959 01:16:43,559 --> 01:16:40,959 solitary radar target that was tracked 1960 01:16:47,429 --> 01:16:43,569 by three separate radar systems we had 1961 01:16:49,679 --> 01:16:47,439 to SCR 270 long-range radars that were 1962 01:16:52,020 --> 01:16:49,689 tracking an inbound radar target for a 1963 01:16:53,459 --> 01:16:52,030 hundred and twenty miles moving inbound 1964 01:16:55,949 --> 01:16:53,469 towards the California coast 1965 01:16:57,839 --> 01:16:55,959 it was also picked up by an SCR two six 1966 01:17:00,719 --> 01:16:57,849 eight which was the first radar used by 1967 01:17:02,309 --> 01:17:00,729 the United States Army they're three 1968 01:17:03,659 --> 01:17:02,319 radar systems start tracking this object 1969 01:17:06,389 --> 01:17:03,669 and by the way all of this information 1970 01:17:08,250 --> 01:17:06,399 is based on the government documents 1971 01:17:10,319 --> 01:17:08,260 secured through the research of Barry 1972 01:17:11,489 --> 01:17:10,329 Greenwood so just for anybody that would 1973 01:17:14,399 --> 01:17:11,499 like to know where the source of this 1974 01:17:15,569 --> 01:17:14,409 information is coming from and and I can 1975 01:17:18,029 --> 01:17:15,579 make that available to anybody that's 1976 01:17:19,919 --> 01:17:18,039 interested in seeing the documents but 1977 01:17:22,409 --> 01:17:19,929 they track this target for a hundred and 1978 01:17:24,179 --> 01:17:22,419 twenty miles a solitary radar target and 1979 01:17:26,009 --> 01:17:24,189 I emphasize that for a reason as we get 1980 01:17:29,449 --> 01:17:26,019 into talking about some other aspects of 1981 01:17:31,470 --> 01:17:29,459 this case the object dropped off radar 1982 01:17:34,470 --> 01:17:31,480 minutes before 1983 01:17:39,030 --> 01:17:34,480 a an object was sighted starting to move 1984 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:39,040 inland off the coast of the west coast 1985 01:17:45,540 --> 01:17:42,970 and from Malibu essentially in Santa 1986 01:17:47,220 --> 01:17:45,550 Monica it starts moving in over Culver 1987 01:17:50,100 --> 01:17:47,230 City which is where we believe the 1988 01:17:53,070 --> 01:17:50,110 famous photograph was snapped the object 1989 01:17:56,010 --> 01:17:53,080 moves inland it then drops down south 1990 01:17:57,810 --> 01:17:56,020 towards Long Beach and disappears now 1991 01:17:59,729 --> 01:17:57,820 I'm giving The Reader's Digest version 1992 01:18:02,400 --> 01:17:59,739 there's a lot more to the story but as 1993 01:18:04,500 --> 01:18:02,410 this object is slowly moving around and 1994 01:18:06,450 --> 01:18:04,510 by the way all the news accounts and 1995 01:18:08,670 --> 01:18:06,460 military reports stated was moving too 1996 01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:08,680 slow to be an aircraft so let's keep 1997 01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:09,520 that in mind 1998 01:18:14,970 --> 01:18:11,850 witnesses never described hearing 1999 01:18:16,979 --> 01:18:14,980 airplanes people saw many different 2000 01:18:19,260 --> 01:18:16,989 things that night but I like to 2001 01:18:21,930 --> 01:18:19,270 emphasize that this solitary target 2002 01:18:23,970 --> 01:18:21,940 moved around the searchlights tracked it 2003 01:18:26,610 --> 01:18:23,980 in I believe what you see in the famous 2004 01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:26,620 photograph there is essentially what is 2005 01:18:30,150 --> 01:18:28,570 described in the radio broadcasts and 2006 01:18:31,890 --> 01:18:30,160 the newspaper accounts that as the 2007 01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:31,900 object moved it was tracked by the 2008 01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:35,290 searchlights and any aircraft fire was 2009 01:18:39,570 --> 01:18:38,170 thrown up at it and as your viewers will 2010 01:18:40,979 --> 01:18:39,580 see on the famous photo there's all 2011 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:40,989 these little white dots around the 2012 01:18:47,250 --> 01:18:43,570 central object those are actually any 2013 01:18:49,050 --> 01:18:47,260 aircraft explosions caught at this split 2014 01:18:51,390 --> 01:18:49,060 second the photographer snapped the 2015 01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:51,400 photograph so you can count how many 2016 01:18:54,990 --> 01:18:53,050 little explosions are around it 2017 01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:55,000 that was just a split second we can only 2018 01:18:58,920 --> 01:18:56,770 imagine how many explosions peppered 2019 01:19:01,440 --> 01:18:58,930 around this object and in fact over 2020 01:19:04,710 --> 01:19:01,450 1,440 rounds of three-inch shells were 2021 01:19:07,130 --> 01:19:04,720 expended at that object in addition to 2022 01:19:09,540 --> 01:19:07,140 50 caliber rounds and 37 millimeter 2023 01:19:11,190 --> 01:19:09,550 rounds and this is again based on 2024 01:19:13,970 --> 01:19:11,200 government documents from the time 2025 01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:13,980 period the object disappeared though 2026 01:19:19,979 --> 01:19:17,530 unscathed apparently off the coast of 2027 01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:19,989 Long Beach 20 minutes after the firing 2028 01:19:25,860 --> 01:19:22,480 died down the object returned in 2029 01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:25,870 essentially reversed direction and moved 2030 01:19:30,810 --> 01:19:28,690 closer to the LA area and again much 2031 01:19:32,790 --> 01:19:30,820 like my Farmington research this is all 2032 01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:32,800 based on correlating the government 2033 01:19:37,110 --> 01:19:35,050 documents with the original newspapers 2034 01:19:39,420 --> 01:19:37,120 of which I have about 15 original 2035 01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:39,430 front-page newspapers from the time 2036 01:19:43,500 --> 01:19:41,290 period in addition to those that have 2037 01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:43,510 been micro filmed and correlating it 2038 01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:45,250 with the CBS Radio News 2039 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:47,890 cast from that morning and so trying to 2040 01:19:53,190 --> 01:19:49,570 synthesize all of these things together 2041 01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:53,200 and the object like I said reverse 2042 01:19:56,940 --> 01:19:55,330 direction and disappeared off the coast 2043 01:20:00,210 --> 01:19:56,950 of Santa Monica from roughly the 2044 01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:00,220 direction it came from and so we have 2045 01:20:05,820 --> 01:20:03,610 radar of a solitary object confirmation 2046 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:05,830 we have a photograph of a solitary 2047 01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:09,010 object and based on the CBS radio news 2048 01:20:15,030 --> 01:20:12,010 broadcast they talk about his solitary 2049 01:20:16,740 --> 01:20:15,040 object not multiple objects and again 2050 01:20:19,140 --> 01:20:16,750 for one of the images you may be showing 2051 01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,150 to the audience the news teletype that I 2052 01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:21,520 have the original of reference is a 2053 01:20:27,540 --> 01:20:24,730 solitary target mystery target is it's 2054 01:20:31,380 --> 01:20:27,550 often eluded to our mystery object and 2055 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:31,390 so I used that as kind of my rationale 2056 01:20:37,290 --> 01:20:33,930 for approaching the Battle of LA case as 2057 01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:37,300 looking at one solitary unidentified 2058 01:20:41,850 --> 01:20:39,610 flying object there were many different 2059 01:20:43,710 --> 01:20:41,860 reports people reported seeing the 2060 01:20:46,440 --> 01:20:43,720 formations of fighter planes new 2061 01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:46,450 formations of bombers miscellaneous 2062 01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:49,450 objects flitting about the sky but I try 2063 01:20:53,790 --> 01:20:51,520 to be conservative in my investigation 2064 01:20:56,190 --> 01:20:53,800 and try to pace it not so much on the 2065 01:20:58,740 --> 01:20:56,200 eyewitness testimony but on things that 2066 01:21:00,750 --> 01:20:58,750 we can analyze let our reference that 2067 01:21:03,540 --> 01:21:00,760 are more objective in nature namely the 2068 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:03,550 photograph and the radar target so 2069 01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:06,010 that's kind of a synopsis and then 2070 01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:08,230 there's been unfortunately like a lot of 2071 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:11,920 cases Martin a lot that has been done in 2072 01:21:16,710 --> 01:21:14,290 the way of damage by UFO researchers and 2073 01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:16,720 conspiracy theorists because what I just 2074 01:21:20,160 --> 01:21:18,730 relayed are the facts the facts as we 2075 01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:20,170 know them based on the newspapers 2076 01:21:26,430 --> 01:21:22,650 government documents eyewitness accounts 2077 01:21:28,830 --> 01:21:26,440 later in years people state well the 2078 01:21:30,900 --> 01:21:28,840 object was shot down and this UFO was 2079 01:21:33,090 --> 01:21:30,910 recovered by military and that was the 2080 01:21:35,580 --> 01:21:33,100 beginning of the UFO cover-up there's 2081 01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:35,590 absolutely no verifiable factual 2082 01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:38,170 information to support that that's where 2083 01:21:43,290 --> 01:21:39,730 people unfortunately have taken good 2084 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:43,300 cases and debased them by blending all 2085 01:21:49,980 --> 01:21:46,690 of this minutiae into it a lot of 2086 01:21:52,530 --> 01:21:49,990 spurious material an IP you 2087 01:21:54,900 --> 01:21:52,540 interplanetary phenomena unit was 2088 01:21:57,270 --> 01:21:54,910 referenced which actually was a military 2089 01:21:58,560 --> 01:21:57,280 unit as verified by researchers in the 2090 01:22:00,359 --> 01:21:58,570 70s in the 80s 2091 01:22:02,339 --> 01:22:00,369 but apparently it was just a think tank 2092 01:22:04,470 --> 01:22:02,349 that existed for a very short period of 2093 01:22:07,740 --> 01:22:04,480 time and never was a functioning or 2094 01:22:10,229 --> 01:22:07,750 active military unit as such but then 2095 01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:10,239 spurious documents came forward 2096 01:22:15,689 --> 01:22:13,690 much like the mj-12 documents documents 2097 01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:15,699 that we simply can't verify even even 2098 01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:17,650 the best researchers have to admit they 2099 01:22:23,220 --> 01:22:20,530 can't 100% verify the authenticity of 2100 01:22:25,770 --> 01:22:23,230 these documents and if I can't variant 2101 01:22:27,359 --> 01:22:25,780 verify the authenticity if I can't show 2102 01:22:29,580 --> 01:22:27,369 the provenance I'm not going to quote 2103 01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:29,590 those documents right and I think you 2104 01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:31,210 could be very careful when we do 2105 01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:33,690 historical research in that sense now 2106 01:22:39,540 --> 01:22:36,130 you're talking about your research what 2107 01:22:42,740 --> 01:22:39,550 about investigations contemporary 2108 01:22:45,030 --> 01:22:42,750 investigations of what was happening 2109 01:22:48,060 --> 01:22:45,040 with regard to the Battle of LA yeah 2110 01:22:49,770 --> 01:22:48,070 mm-hmm well military authorities were 2111 01:22:52,410 --> 01:22:49,780 obviously trying to figure out what was 2112 01:22:54,270 --> 01:22:52,420 going on at the time and this went all 2113 01:22:55,589 --> 01:22:54,280 the way not from just the general public 2114 01:22:57,450 --> 01:22:55,599 in the military 2115 01:22:59,459 --> 01:22:57,460 Congress when you look at the news 2116 01:23:01,879 --> 01:22:59,469 reports from the time it was I believe 2117 01:23:05,339 --> 01:23:01,889 state representative Leland of 2118 01:23:07,589 --> 01:23:05,349 California was demanding Congress do an 2119 01:23:10,919 --> 01:23:07,599 investigation because as you can imagine 2120 01:23:12,660 --> 01:23:10,929 this created pandemonium there were 2121 01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:12,670 about six to seven people that died that 2122 01:23:18,419 --> 01:23:16,570 night due to heart attacks and vehicular 2123 01:23:19,979 --> 01:23:18,429 accidents they were trying to drive 2124 01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:19,989 during the blackout and would run into 2125 01:23:25,140 --> 01:23:21,730 something or run into another individual 2126 01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:25,150 and so people died as a result of this 2127 01:23:27,990 --> 01:23:26,770 and again the skeptics laugh at this 2128 01:23:29,910 --> 01:23:28,000 case but I always like to point out 2129 01:23:32,189 --> 01:23:29,920 people lost their lives that night 2130 01:23:33,959 --> 01:23:32,199 regardless of your take on what really 2131 01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:33,969 happened I mean you know people lost 2132 01:23:39,810 --> 01:23:37,090 their lives as a result and what's 2133 01:23:41,939 --> 01:23:39,820 interesting about it though is Leland 2134 01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:41,949 was demanding Congress investigate the 2135 01:23:45,959 --> 01:23:44,800 case the military at the time the 2136 01:23:47,970 --> 01:23:45,969 Secretary of the Navy 2137 01:23:50,970 --> 01:23:47,980 Frank Knox said it was just all jittery 2138 01:23:53,339 --> 01:23:50,980 Warner's Secretary of War Stimson said 2139 01:23:55,109 --> 01:23:53,349 no there really were planes or there 2140 01:23:57,330 --> 01:23:55,119 really were mystery objects in the sky 2141 01:23:59,399 --> 01:23:57,340 and so you had two conflicting 2142 01:24:02,729 --> 01:23:59,409 explanations that the public was being 2143 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:02,739 given at the time and one of the famous 2144 01:24:06,229 --> 01:24:04,570 documents on the Battle of LA is a 2145 01:24:08,660 --> 01:24:06,239 briefing document that was sent to 2146 01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:08,670 President Franklin Delano Roosevelt 2147 01:24:12,330 --> 01:24:11,050 because as I say interest went all the 2148 01:24:13,980 --> 01:24:12,340 way to the top 2149 01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:13,990 as you can imagine the president wanted 2150 01:24:18,660 --> 01:24:16,480 to know what happened and especially 2151 01:24:20,730 --> 01:24:18,670 when you have military you know ordnance 2152 01:24:23,690 --> 01:24:20,740 being expended and thrown into the air 2153 01:24:27,180 --> 01:24:23,700 over a populated city like Los Angeles 2154 01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:27,190 what's interesting though is despite the 2155 01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:29,050 I guess you can say short-lived 2156 01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:32,050 interests on the part of the government 2157 01:24:36,330 --> 01:24:34,570 military authorities these two 2158 01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:36,340 conflicting explanations were never 2159 01:24:42,330 --> 01:24:39,310 resolved and again we have to put 2160 01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:42,340 ourselves back in February 1942 in March 2161 01:24:47,730 --> 01:24:45,730 1942 the subsequent month we were still 2162 01:24:50,040 --> 01:24:47,740 engaged in world war ii i'm in fact we 2163 01:24:51,930 --> 01:24:50,050 were just getting into world war ii so 2164 01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:51,940 you know we didn't have time to just 2165 01:24:57,270 --> 01:24:54,250 ponder this one little episode you know 2166 01:25:00,030 --> 01:24:57,280 in time and what's interesting is after 2167 01:25:03,570 --> 01:25:00,040 the the ensuing interest right after the 2168 01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:03,580 event interest disappeared the war 2169 01:25:09,900 --> 01:25:06,490 continued and life went on and in fact 2170 01:25:12,630 --> 01:25:09,910 it wasn't until the 1960s where kenneth 2171 01:25:14,580 --> 01:25:12,640 larson wrote an article in a flying 2172 01:25:16,860 --> 01:25:14,590 saucer periodical published by max 2173 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:16,870 Miller it was flying saucers pictorial 2174 01:25:21,810 --> 01:25:19,810 and it showed the famous photo from the 2175 01:25:24,510 --> 01:25:21,820 Battle of LA and it was really that 2176 01:25:28,620 --> 01:25:24,520 magazine article that rekindled it not 2177 01:25:30,870 --> 01:25:28,630 just on the point of UFO enthusiasts but 2178 01:25:33,150 --> 01:25:30,880 historians they had kind of been 2179 01:25:34,860 --> 01:25:33,160 forgotten for the most part in fact ie 2180 01:25:36,510 --> 01:25:34,870 lecture on the case today and I'll have 2181 01:25:38,250 --> 01:25:36,520 like World War 2 buffs a you know I 2182 01:25:40,740 --> 01:25:38,260 never even knew about this case I never 2183 01:25:43,620 --> 01:25:40,750 even knew about this episode and what's 2184 01:25:45,540 --> 01:25:43,630 interesting about that is right after 2185 01:25:47,610 --> 01:25:45,550 Kenneth Larson's article which didn't go 2186 01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:47,620 in-depth unfortunately very much but it 2187 01:25:53,700 --> 01:25:50,170 resurfaced it rekindled that interest on 2188 01:25:56,730 --> 01:25:53,710 the case it was actually Gordon lore and 2189 01:25:59,580 --> 01:25:56,740 Harold enou with my cap that wrote a 2190 01:26:01,290 --> 01:25:59,590 fairly detailed account in their book 2191 01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:01,300 mysteries of the skies that was 2192 01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:03,730 published in the 60s and dad did a 2193 01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:05,050 little bit more in-depth they actually 2194 01:26:08,940 --> 01:26:06,730 looked at some of the newspaper accounts 2195 01:26:10,590 --> 01:26:08,950 from the time period but again credit 2196 01:26:12,810 --> 01:26:10,600 where credit's do it really wasn't until 2197 01:26:15,420 --> 01:26:12,820 the late 70s early 80s were buried 2198 01:26:17,460 --> 01:26:15,430 Greenwood obtained the official military 2199 01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:17,470 documents that really started to give us 2200 01:26:22,170 --> 01:26:20,110 additional insights into the case so it 2201 01:26:24,540 --> 01:26:22,180 was really a succession of researchers 2202 01:26:26,210 --> 01:26:24,550 and enthusiasts that started bringing 2203 01:26:29,630 --> 01:26:26,220 more information to light and of course 2204 01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:29,640 is an untouched undoctored photograph 2205 01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:32,130 and there's always been a lot of like I 2206 01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:35,040 said misinformation on this case the 2207 01:26:38,090 --> 01:26:36,810 famous photo that most people will see 2208 01:26:41,450 --> 01:26:38,100 when they go on the internet is a 2209 01:26:43,910 --> 01:26:41,460 doctored touched up photo and I don't 2210 01:26:45,380 --> 01:26:43,920 mean anything nefarious but back then 2211 01:26:46,970 --> 01:26:45,390 they used to paint on the original 2212 01:26:49,370 --> 01:26:46,980 photographs or negatives they used to 2213 01:26:51,290 --> 01:26:49,380 actually doctor the image so it would 2214 01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:51,300 translate better into newsprint there 2215 01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:53,250 there was no government conspiracy by 2216 01:26:58,160 --> 01:26:55,890 any means and the famous one that people 2217 01:27:00,920 --> 01:26:58,170 see has been doctored and touched up the 2218 01:27:02,810 --> 01:27:00,930 one that they're hopefully seeing while 2219 01:27:05,330 --> 01:27:02,820 we're discussing the case is an 2220 01:27:08,330 --> 01:27:05,340 undoctored photo and what you really see 2221 01:27:10,550 --> 01:27:08,340 on that dispels a misconception with 2222 01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:10,560 regard to whatever was captured in the 2223 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:12,210 convergence of those searchlights in the 2224 01:27:15,950 --> 01:27:14,610 photograph and a lot of people 2225 01:27:17,660 --> 01:27:15,960 historically have said well we see a 2226 01:27:21,230 --> 01:27:17,670 beautiful flying saucer with a little 2227 01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:21,240 cupola or dome on top yeah but that is 2228 01:27:24,980 --> 01:27:23,250 the doctored image that is the enhanced 2229 01:27:26,780 --> 01:27:24,990 image which from an evidentiary 2230 01:27:29,770 --> 01:27:26,790 standpoint you might as well throw in 2231 01:27:33,530 --> 01:27:29,780 the trash bin you really can't use that 2232 01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:33,540 in the midst of that is this elliptical 2233 01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:37,320 grey object that definitely stands out 2234 01:27:40,850 --> 01:27:38,970 you see a difference in the contrast 2235 01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:40,860 ratio there between those the 2236 01:27:44,690 --> 01:27:42,810 conglomeration of little white blobs and 2237 01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:44,700 I don't know Martin if you can see that 2238 01:27:49,730 --> 01:27:47,850 as I'm describing it there but it 2239 01:27:52,310 --> 01:27:49,740 definitely paints a different picture of 2240 01:27:57,200 --> 01:27:52,320 what people have traditionally seen in 2241 01:27:59,630 --> 01:27:57,210 that photograph excellent so now you 2242 01:28:02,840 --> 01:27:59,640 mentioned earlier there were about over 2243 01:28:05,870 --> 01:28:02,850 1400 3 inch rounds shot at this thing I 2244 01:28:09,650 --> 01:28:05,880 would only guess that the thing must 2245 01:28:12,350 --> 01:28:09,660 have been hit I mean what what are the 2246 01:28:14,090 --> 01:28:12,360 observations about that well some 2247 01:28:16,670 --> 01:28:14,100 witnesses state that the object had 2248 01:28:19,250 --> 01:28:16,680 apparently sustained direct hits the 2249 01:28:21,350 --> 01:28:19,260 byron palmer the CD a CBS radio 2250 01:28:24,260 --> 01:28:21,360 broadcaster in the famous radio 2251 01:28:26,090 --> 01:28:24,270 broadcast states shells frequently could 2252 01:28:28,310 --> 01:28:26,100 be seen bursting near the object but 2253 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:28,320 none appeared to hit it but I think the 2254 01:28:33,380 --> 01:28:30,570 rationale there was because it didn't 2255 01:28:34,940 --> 01:28:33,390 come down that if it was a plane we 2256 01:28:36,890 --> 01:28:34,950 would have brought it down if it was a 2257 01:28:38,930 --> 01:28:36,900 balloon we would it would have deflated 2258 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:38,940 it would have come down so I think that 2259 01:28:40,770 --> 01:28:39,130 was 2260 01:28:42,330 --> 01:28:40,780 more of an inference based on the fact 2261 01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:42,340 that the object apparently seemed 2262 01:28:47,070 --> 01:28:44,050 unscathed that it must not have 2263 01:28:49,770 --> 01:28:47,080 sustained any direct hits but what's 2264 01:28:51,750 --> 01:28:49,780 interesting about that is I have 2265 01:28:54,390 --> 01:28:51,760 wrestled with the idea trying to find a 2266 01:28:55,350 --> 01:28:54,400 practical explanation and a lot of the 2267 01:28:57,209 --> 01:28:55,360 skeptics will say it was a 2268 01:28:59,149 --> 01:28:57,219 meteorological balloon or it was a 2269 01:29:02,879 --> 01:28:59,159 barrage balloon that became untethered 2270 01:29:05,490 --> 01:29:02,889 from a visual standpoint I will concede 2271 01:29:08,370 --> 01:29:05,500 that that elliptical shape that appears 2272 01:29:10,919 --> 01:29:08,380 in the undoctored negative could conform 2273 01:29:13,530 --> 01:29:10,929 to a barrage balloon that became 2274 01:29:15,689 --> 01:29:13,540 untethered their elliptical they were 2275 01:29:18,570 --> 01:29:15,699 manufactured by the shell corporation it 2276 01:29:20,910 --> 01:29:18,580 was a cotton fabric that was basically 2277 01:29:22,860 --> 01:29:20,920 encased in a latex rubber material that 2278 01:29:25,830 --> 01:29:22,870 was then painted silver so who would 2279 01:29:27,990 --> 01:29:25,840 have been light reflective as well but 2280 01:29:29,780 --> 01:29:28,000 when you look at the radar data when you 2281 01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:29,790 look at the way that this object 2282 01:29:36,060 --> 01:29:32,560 maneuvered not once but twice over the 2283 01:29:39,060 --> 01:29:36,070 greater LA area when it apparently could 2284 01:29:42,060 --> 01:29:39,070 stop at times and then move slowly when 2285 01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:42,070 it could execute turns apparently under 2286 01:29:49,649 --> 01:29:45,690 some guided or intelligent control I 2287 01:29:51,780 --> 01:29:49,659 despite my best efforts cannot resolve 2288 01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:51,790 myself to explaining it away as a as a 2289 01:29:58,709 --> 01:29:55,840 untethered barrage balloon and this is 2290 01:30:01,560 --> 01:29:58,719 the thing also we have investigative 2291 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:01,570 notes we have meetings meeting notes 2292 01:30:05,820 --> 01:30:03,610 that were conducted by military 2293 01:30:08,430 --> 01:30:05,830 officials that were in charge of the 2294 01:30:10,169 --> 01:30:08,440 defense of the western coast where 2295 01:30:12,540 --> 01:30:10,179 they're trying to explain it away in 2296 01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:12,550 trying to rationalize it the simplest 2297 01:30:15,629 --> 01:30:14,320 easiest thing that you would see in one 2298 01:30:17,490 --> 01:30:15,639 of these government documents are in 2299 01:30:22,430 --> 01:30:17,500 these meeting notes is that we found a 2300 01:30:25,110 --> 01:30:22,440 deflated large you know untethered 2301 01:30:26,850 --> 01:30:25,120 anti-aircraft barrage balloon that was 2302 01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:26,860 draped over a roof and there there's 2303 01:30:30,060 --> 01:30:27,370 your answer 2304 01:30:32,340 --> 01:30:30,070 case closed but they don't have that 2305 01:30:35,399 --> 01:30:32,350 they never offered that as an 2306 01:30:38,370 --> 01:30:35,409 explanation and in fact it was I believe 2307 01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:38,380 in 1949 in an obscure anti-aircraft 2308 01:30:44,850 --> 01:30:42,130 journal magazine that a writer stated 2309 01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:44,860 that definitively the Battle of LA had 2310 01:30:50,280 --> 01:30:47,409 been attributed to not one but two 2311 01:30:52,419 --> 01:30:50,290 meteorological balloons that had broken 2312 01:30:54,850 --> 01:30:52,429 loose or that had been cited by any air 2313 01:30:56,969 --> 01:30:54,860 craft gun batteries and were fired on 2314 01:30:59,410 --> 01:30:56,979 what's interesting is they never 2315 01:31:01,750 --> 01:30:59,420 reference a document where they're 2316 01:31:04,179 --> 01:31:01,760 coming up with that and when you look at 2317 01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:04,189 the contemporaneous notes by military 2318 01:31:08,609 --> 01:31:06,530 officials and the meeting notes from the 2319 01:31:12,399 --> 01:31:08,619 time period and I'm talking top brass 2320 01:31:14,890 --> 01:31:12,409 generals in DC as well as the western 2321 01:31:16,959 --> 01:31:14,900 coast they never referenced that as a 2322 01:31:18,609 --> 01:31:16,969 definitive explanation what was 2323 01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:18,619 interesting is when you look at it and 2324 01:31:23,439 --> 01:31:20,449 again we have to go back to the thinking 2325 01:31:26,009 --> 01:31:23,449 in 1942 the thinking in the notes and 2326 01:31:29,169 --> 01:31:26,019 I'm paraphrasing was something like this 2327 01:31:32,140 --> 01:31:29,179 the fact that the object moved too slow 2328 01:31:34,779 --> 01:31:32,150 to be an aircraft must suggest that it 2329 01:31:38,979 --> 01:31:34,789 might have been a balloon but of course 2330 01:31:40,899 --> 01:31:38,989 now after 1947 and after we begun to 2331 01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:40,909 look at this UFO subject we can now look 2332 01:31:44,739 --> 01:31:42,530 back and think well is there a third 2333 01:31:46,540 --> 01:31:44,749 explanation is there something that 2334 01:31:48,729 --> 01:31:46,550 moves too slow to be an aircraft that 2335 01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:48,739 could sustain direct or near direct hits 2336 01:31:53,770 --> 01:31:51,650 by any aircraft fire that happens to be 2337 01:31:56,830 --> 01:31:53,780 elliptical in shape and that hat can 2338 01:31:58,419 --> 01:31:56,840 move intelligently yet not conform to 2339 01:32:03,100 --> 01:31:58,429 the physical description of an aircraft 2340 01:32:05,500 --> 01:32:03,110 and in point of fact looking at the 2341 01:32:07,299 --> 01:32:05,510 conventional explanations the Japanese 2342 01:32:10,870 --> 01:32:07,309 military at the conclusion of world war 2343 01:32:14,799 --> 01:32:10,880 ii categorically denied any military 2344 01:32:17,620 --> 01:32:14,809 operations on February 25th 1942 near or 2345 01:32:19,419 --> 01:32:17,630 over the Los Angeles area they 2346 01:32:21,489 --> 01:32:19,429 categorically deny that that's 2347 01:32:24,100 --> 01:32:21,499 officially on record we have newspapers 2348 01:32:26,799 --> 01:32:24,110 that testify that official statements by 2349 01:32:28,330 --> 01:32:26,809 Japanese spokesmen the other thing we 2350 01:32:30,609 --> 01:32:28,340 have to factor in is people said well 2351 01:32:33,189 --> 01:32:30,619 maybe it was military aircraft our 2352 01:32:34,959 --> 01:32:33,199 military aircraft one of the interesting 2353 01:32:36,850 --> 01:32:34,969 things despite the fact many witnesses 2354 01:32:39,399 --> 01:32:36,860 thought they saw aircraft in the air 2355 01:32:42,189 --> 01:32:39,409 that night all of our fighter planes 2356 01:32:43,779 --> 01:32:42,199 were on the ground and we have an 2357 01:32:46,929 --> 01:32:43,789 official government Declassified 2358 01:32:49,540 --> 01:32:46,939 memorandum between two generals where 2359 01:32:52,989 --> 01:32:49,550 the the topic of aircraft was brought up 2360 01:32:54,189 --> 01:32:52,999 and it states we only had 45 aircraft 2361 01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,199 which is really scary when you think 2362 01:32:58,649 --> 01:32:56,719 back to it only 45 military aircraft 2363 01:33:02,500 --> 01:32:58,659 defending the West Coast at that time 2364 01:33:04,660 --> 01:33:02,510 and it states aircraft were on the 2365 01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:04,670 ground the pilots were in their cockpits 2366 01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:06,290 the planes were fueled 2367 01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:08,330 ready but they did not want to launch 2368 01:33:15,250 --> 01:33:11,570 the planes because again they reference 2369 01:33:17,830 --> 01:33:15,260 a solitary mystery object they stated we 2370 01:33:20,430 --> 01:33:17,840 did not want to send our 45 planes up if 2371 01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:20,440 this object was a reconnaissance plane 2372 01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:23,650 that was a prelude for the main attack 2373 01:33:28,660 --> 01:33:25,850 which makes sense it makes a perfect 2374 01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:28,670 military sense and so and especially the 2375 01:33:32,530 --> 01:33:30,770 fact that no bombs were dropped no 2376 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:32,540 damage was sustained as a result of the 2377 01:33:38,980 --> 01:33:35,930 this mysterious object but in the 2378 01:33:40,690 --> 01:33:38,990 military's defense they had planes ready 2379 01:33:42,220 --> 01:33:40,700 it wasn't that they were completely 2380 01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:42,230 impotent with regard to this whole 2381 01:33:47,140 --> 01:33:45,170 episode but they stated we did not want 2382 01:33:49,810 --> 01:33:47,150 to have our planes up in the air half 2383 01:33:51,970 --> 01:33:49,820 out of fuel when the main attack which 2384 01:33:55,150 --> 01:33:51,980 they thought was impending was going to 2385 01:33:57,190 --> 01:33:55,160 actually manifest itself now one one 2386 01:34:00,160 --> 01:33:57,200 last question on this this case had 2387 01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:00,170 there been since that time had there 2388 01:34:06,430 --> 01:34:02,090 been anything similar to that happen 2389 01:34:09,100 --> 01:34:06,440 over la they had a blackout in December 2390 01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:09,110 which is interesting I had the original 2391 01:34:13,630 --> 01:34:11,210 again this is one of those I secured the 2392 01:34:16,900 --> 01:34:13,640 original newspaper of and you know 2393 01:34:18,670 --> 01:34:16,910 people say well the Californians they 2394 01:34:21,070 --> 01:34:18,680 were just thrown into a panic because of 2395 01:34:23,770 --> 01:34:21,080 this this blackout and they their their 2396 01:34:24,850 --> 01:34:23,780 imaginations ran wild with them one of 2397 01:34:27,660 --> 01:34:24,860 the things that one of the reasons I 2398 01:34:31,060 --> 01:34:27,670 bought that newspaper was this fact 2399 01:34:33,940 --> 01:34:31,070 February you know December 7 1941 right 2400 01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:33,950 Pearl Harbor the first blackout that 2401 01:34:40,150 --> 01:34:36,410 occurred in Los Angeles was literally 2402 01:34:41,860 --> 01:34:40,160 just days after Pearl Harbor if people 2403 01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:41,870 were gonna be panicked if there was 2404 01:34:46,690 --> 01:34:44,570 going to be a state of hysteria I would 2405 01:34:48,810 --> 01:34:46,700 think it would be in the intervening or 2406 01:34:52,090 --> 01:34:48,820 subsequent days right after Pearl Harbor 2407 01:34:54,550 --> 01:34:52,100 not two months not two full months after 2408 01:34:57,520 --> 01:34:54,560 the events of Pearl Harbor and yet we 2409 01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:57,530 have a blackout where no one died there 2410 01:35:01,990 --> 01:34:59,600 were no any aircraft guns that shelled 2411 01:35:04,020 --> 01:35:02,000 or pumped metal and shrapnel into the 2412 01:35:05,890 --> 01:35:04,030 air everything was fine 2413 01:35:08,980 --> 01:35:05,900 Californians behaved themselves 2414 01:35:12,700 --> 01:35:08,990 perfectly it wasn't until February 25th 2415 01:35:14,710 --> 01:35:12,710 1942 with this radar confirmation that 2416 01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:14,720 again triggered this entire blackout 2417 01:35:19,390 --> 01:35:17,210 where guns were in operation and they 2418 01:35:20,020 --> 01:35:19,400 were firing at something so I use that 2419 01:35:21,970 --> 01:35:20,030 as a point of 2420 01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:21,980 contrast historically when we're looking 2421 01:35:26,890 --> 01:35:24,650 at these two episodes people weren't in 2422 01:35:28,930 --> 01:35:26,900 a panic just days after Pearl Harbor so 2423 01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:28,940 why would they be in this hysteria 2424 01:35:32,950 --> 01:35:31,130 two months later right I just I just 2425 01:35:35,110 --> 01:35:32,960 throw that out to my audiences to think 2426 01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:35,120 about yeah well I think you've done 2427 01:35:38,740 --> 01:35:36,770 great work on that case that's an 2428 01:35:41,710 --> 01:35:38,750 amazing thing and it's one of those 2429 01:35:43,450 --> 01:35:41,720 unknowns that's it and that's just it at 2430 01:35:46,030 --> 01:35:43,460 the end of my lectures Martin when I 2431 01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:46,040 talk about this case I always state this 2432 01:35:49,570 --> 01:35:47,450 is the information that I've gathered 2433 01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:49,580 and I systematically rule out all the 2434 01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:52,010 prosaic explanations if you're an 2435 01:35:56,230 --> 01:35:54,410 agreement with my logic in how I go 2436 01:35:58,480 --> 01:35:56,240 through and systematically explain all 2437 01:36:00,940 --> 01:35:58,490 these away then we're left with a 2438 01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:00,950 genuine unknown you fill in the blank 2439 01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:02,930 and I state matter-of-factly I'm not 2440 01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:05,750 saying it's extraterrestrial but all I'm 2441 01:36:12,100 --> 01:36:08,570 saying is it's an unknown aerial object 2442 01:36:14,410 --> 01:36:12,110 that to this day 75 plus years later 2443 01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:14,420 we're still trying to figure it out but 2444 01:36:17,770 --> 01:36:16,370 it's an interesting case it's an 2445 01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:17,780 interesting chapter in world war two 2446 01:36:24,070 --> 01:36:21,650 history you know at the very least and I 2447 01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:24,080 find it interesting in fact um they were 2448 01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:26,210 very interested they used the battle of 2449 01:36:31,420 --> 01:36:29,330 la foto as part of their poster 2450 01:36:33,070 --> 01:36:31,430 promoting my lecture for the university 2451 01:36:34,870 --> 01:36:33,080 which I thought was interesting and even 2452 01:36:37,150 --> 01:36:34,880 the Dean was very interested in the case 2453 01:36:39,160 --> 01:36:37,160 itself and when I go out and lecture 2454 01:36:40,870 --> 01:36:39,170 people are very very captivated by it 2455 01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:40,880 when I do my lectures a lot 2456 01:36:44,950 --> 01:36:43,010 I'll bring the original newspapers frame 2457 01:36:47,290 --> 01:36:44,960 newspapers so people can see it because 2458 01:36:49,150 --> 01:36:47,300 I think when you talk about historic 2459 01:36:50,980 --> 01:36:49,160 cases or history sometimes people get a 2460 01:36:51,910 --> 01:36:50,990 little bit of a yawn you know oh that 2461 01:36:54,130 --> 01:36:51,920 happened years ago 2462 01:36:56,440 --> 01:36:54,140 when they can see the real photograph 2463 01:36:59,830 --> 01:36:56,450 the real news teletype the real 2464 01:37:03,130 --> 01:36:59,840 newspapers it makes it more real it 2465 01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,140 really conveys that no this was really 2466 01:37:07,090 --> 01:37:05,360 an episode in history and here's some of 2467 01:37:07,540 --> 01:37:07,100 the historical artifacts from that time 2468 01:37:09,820 --> 01:37:07,550 period 2469 01:37:12,940 --> 01:37:09,830 yeah right now we're not leaving the 2470 01:37:15,430 --> 01:37:12,950 same type of footprint as is all your 2471 01:37:17,020 --> 01:37:15,440 library is and everything that you're 2472 01:37:19,510 --> 01:37:17,030 collecting and you know I think about 2473 01:37:21,790 --> 01:37:19,520 that too as well as you know I'm an 2474 01:37:24,130 --> 01:37:21,800 appraiser of documents and things so 2475 01:37:26,470 --> 01:37:24,140 absolutely yeah and I know an email by 2476 01:37:28,810 --> 01:37:26,480 the way Bill Clinton's email to an 2477 01:37:31,330 --> 01:37:28,820 astronaut sold for $20,000 at an auction 2478 01:37:33,160 --> 01:37:31,340 Oh monk it's the only digital building 2479 01:37:37,480 --> 01:37:33,170 that I've found records on 2480 01:37:39,250 --> 01:37:37,490 based in based on your and your line of 2481 01:37:41,680 --> 01:37:39,260 work and I think that's why you 2482 01:37:44,020 --> 01:37:41,690 appreciate a lot of my research it's all 2483 01:37:46,050 --> 01:37:44,030 about the provenance yes yes when you're 2484 01:37:48,850 --> 01:37:46,060 talking photographs when you're talking 2485 01:37:51,670 --> 01:37:48,860 newspapers it's when you go to the 2486 01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:51,680 originals I mean they may have gotten 2487 01:37:55,690 --> 01:37:54,170 some details wrong here or there but you 2488 01:37:57,910 --> 01:37:55,700 can't question the source of the 2489 01:38:00,250 --> 01:37:57,920 material when you're looking at a 75 2490 01:38:02,950 --> 01:38:00,260 year old newspaper or you're looking at 2491 01:38:04,420 --> 01:38:02,960 the original news teletype affixed to 2492 01:38:07,060 --> 01:38:04,430 the back of an original photograph 2493 01:38:10,060 --> 01:38:07,070 stamped Associated Press and dated 2494 01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:10,070 February 25 1942 that's what I love to 2495 01:38:15,100 --> 01:38:13,490 do one I'm a collector in addition to a 2496 01:38:17,470 --> 01:38:15,110 historian I don't think you can be one 2497 01:38:18,970 --> 01:38:17,480 without the other to some extent but I 2498 01:38:21,490 --> 01:38:18,980 think it's important and I think you'll 2499 01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:21,500 agree that it is about the provenance of 2500 01:38:27,610 --> 01:38:24,530 information and to your point with 2501 01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:27,620 today's some of today's UFO researchers 2502 01:38:31,480 --> 01:38:29,330 I think they do a disservice to 2503 01:38:35,140 --> 01:38:31,490 themselves and to their audiences when 2504 01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:35,150 they put forth material that they can't 2505 01:38:41,050 --> 01:38:37,040 verify that they haven't even attempted 2506 01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:41,060 to properly vet and you know I try to be 2507 01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:42,410 honest with myself as well as my 2508 01:38:48,940 --> 01:38:45,610 audiences in providing factually 2509 01:38:50,890 --> 01:38:48,950 verifiable information and not going 2510 01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:50,900 down the rabbit hole of spurious 2511 01:38:55,030 --> 01:38:53,450 materials and purported government 2512 01:38:58,150 --> 01:38:55,040 documents and purported government 2513 01:38:59,800 --> 01:38:58,160 conspiracies I think it titillates the 2514 01:39:02,250 --> 01:38:59,810 imagination but I'm not interested in 2515 01:39:04,510 --> 01:39:02,260 imagination I'm interested in facts and 2516 01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:04,520 the facts are so much more interesting 2517 01:39:09,550 --> 01:39:07,850 in my opinion that's uh that's one of 2518 01:39:12,550 --> 01:39:09,560 the things I really really like about 2519 01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:12,560 you and why I enjoy you as a guest and 2520 01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:15,050 just to let the the listening audience 2521 01:39:22,570 --> 01:39:19,610 know prior to this show I asked Dave to 2522 01:39:25,450 --> 01:39:22,580 send me an image of what he thought was 2523 01:39:29,470 --> 01:39:25,460 the best triangle UFO and his answer was 2524 01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:29,480 I'm not into the pictures I'm into 2525 01:39:34,270 --> 01:39:32,170 basically the witness testimony and and 2526 01:39:37,510 --> 01:39:34,280 following the facts I think that's a 2527 01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:37,520 that kind of speaks to you know what you 2528 01:39:43,270 --> 01:39:40,970 do and and well thank you yeah and 2529 01:39:44,740 --> 01:39:43,280 Justin just to clarify that the only 2530 01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:44,750 reason we're talking about the Battle of 2531 01:39:47,160 --> 01:39:45,530 la foto 2532 01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:47,170 is because we have 2533 01:39:52,630 --> 01:39:50,480 verifiable source documents we have the 2534 01:39:55,350 --> 01:39:52,640 news teletype we have the earmarks that 2535 01:39:57,880 --> 01:39:55,360 this is from official news agencies 2536 01:39:59,770 --> 01:39:57,890 today unfortunately with digital 2537 01:40:01,510 --> 01:39:59,780 technology the videos that you see on 2538 01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:01,520 YouTube the photographs that people are 2539 01:40:06,820 --> 01:40:03,890 posting can easily be digitally 2540 01:40:09,430 --> 01:40:06,830 manipulated and I'm not a photographic 2541 01:40:10,990 --> 01:40:09,440 expert or analyst I will leave 2542 01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:11,000 photographs and that to those 2543 01:40:15,250 --> 01:40:13,370 individuals the only reason I reference 2544 01:40:16,750 --> 01:40:15,260 the Battle of la foto is because we do 2545 01:40:19,420 --> 01:40:16,760 know the official source through which 2546 01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:19,430 it came from and so it didn't come from 2547 01:40:23,950 --> 01:40:21,290 just some anonymous source that we can 2548 01:40:27,310 --> 01:40:23,960 verify yeah so I think this would be a 2549 01:40:30,250 --> 01:40:27,320 good segue to talk about triangle UFOs 2550 01:40:33,610 --> 01:40:30,260 what most people know you by your 2551 01:40:37,690 --> 01:40:33,620 wonderful book out there thank you thank 2552 01:40:40,090 --> 01:40:37,700 you so okay so you wrote the book you 2553 01:40:43,540 --> 01:40:40,100 talked about it a lot very successful 2554 01:40:45,310 --> 01:40:43,550 sales and everybody talks about your 2555 01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:45,320 book and what's it what's the exact 2556 01:40:50,710 --> 01:40:48,560 title of that a triangular UFOs an 2557 01:40:53,470 --> 01:40:50,720 estimate of the situation which is 2558 01:40:54,670 --> 01:40:53,480 actually military parlance I used that 2559 01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:54,680 because that was of course the famous 2560 01:40:59,110 --> 01:40:56,330 estimate of the situation that the Air 2561 01:41:02,290 --> 01:40:59,120 Force drafted a document you know in 2562 01:41:05,290 --> 01:41:02,300 1948 on that and it's kind of become 2563 01:41:07,510 --> 01:41:05,300 mythical in nature but anytime the 2564 01:41:10,180 --> 01:41:07,520 military does a report it usually has 2565 01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:10,190 the the attribution or the subtitle an 2566 01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:12,250 estimate of the situation whether it's a 2567 01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:15,170 aircraft accident but I thought it was 2568 01:41:19,750 --> 01:41:17,930 appropriate like I tried to I tried to 2569 01:41:22,390 --> 01:41:19,760 approach as you know writing the book is 2570 01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:22,400 like a military analyst if I was an 2571 01:41:26,140 --> 01:41:23,930 intelligence analyst I was given this 2572 01:41:28,360 --> 01:41:26,150 information how would i collate the 2573 01:41:31,030 --> 01:41:28,370 material how would i synthesize it into 2574 01:41:33,220 --> 01:41:31,040 essentially a an intelligence briefing 2575 01:41:35,440 --> 01:41:33,230 document if you will and towards the end 2576 01:41:38,980 --> 01:41:35,450 i drafted as that when i start putting 2577 01:41:41,020 --> 01:41:38,990 my summary together and i was really 2578 01:41:42,850 --> 01:41:41,030 fascinated with the history and that's 2579 01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:42,860 why I wrote the book again getting back 2580 01:41:48,460 --> 01:41:44,330 to history I sound like a broken record 2581 01:41:50,290 --> 01:41:48,470 but it's my passion but really one of 2582 01:41:52,990 --> 01:41:50,300 the reasons I wrote it was I was seeing 2583 01:41:55,690 --> 01:41:53,000 people posting just comments that were 2584 01:41:56,260 --> 01:41:55,700 completely erroneous when you look at 2585 01:41:58,330 --> 01:41:56,270 the facts 2586 01:42:00,130 --> 01:41:58,340 people stating well these triangular 2587 01:42:00,910 --> 01:42:00,140 UFOs must be military because they only 2588 01:42:02,410 --> 01:42:00,920 started being seen 2589 01:42:04,930 --> 01:42:02,420 in the 70s and 80s when stealth 2590 01:42:07,750 --> 01:42:04,940 technology came out and I'm sitting in 2591 01:42:10,540 --> 01:42:07,760 my research room and I have just tons of 2592 01:42:13,930 --> 01:42:10,550 original news clippings newspapers 2593 01:42:17,169 --> 01:42:13,940 copies of military documents referencing 2594 01:42:18,610 --> 01:42:17,179 large triangular silent UFOs in fact 2595 01:42:20,140 --> 01:42:18,620 that one of the famous ones which you 2596 01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:20,150 may remember from the book and some of 2597 01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:21,290 your audience that they'd read the book 2598 01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:25,489 in 1957 November 1957 the Danish Defense 2599 01:42:30,970 --> 01:42:27,890 Intelligence Service had a wave of 2600 01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:30,980 triangular UFOs which at that time I 2601 01:42:35,290 --> 01:42:32,449 always like to say this is their term 2602 01:42:39,189 --> 01:42:35,300 not mine it was referenced as triangular 2603 01:42:41,260 --> 01:42:39,199 spaceships and I verified that finding 2604 01:42:44,590 --> 01:42:41,270 an old Reuters news service article from 2605 01:42:46,150 --> 01:42:44,600 spring of 1958 in which the apparent 2606 01:42:49,930 --> 01:42:46,160 wave of sightings was still continuing 2607 01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:49,940 and the Reuters news service stated they 2608 01:42:53,820 --> 01:42:51,410 interviewed a woman in the village of 2609 01:42:57,669 --> 01:42:53,830 brochure who had witnessed a large 2610 01:43:00,250 --> 01:42:57,679 silent hovering triangular object just 2611 01:43:02,470 --> 01:43:00,260 like the modern-day reports that not 2612 01:43:05,919 --> 01:43:02,480 only was observed hovering over the 2613 01:43:09,220 --> 01:43:05,929 village but horseshoe-shaped UFO seen 2614 01:43:10,959 --> 01:43:09,230 shooting out of this object now what's 2615 01:43:13,630 --> 01:43:10,969 interesting about that is it's through 2616 01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:13,640 Reuters Reuters in the article itself 2617 01:43:19,060 --> 01:43:16,310 states they were able to talk to at 2618 01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:19,070 least 20 other villagers that basically 2619 01:43:23,470 --> 01:43:21,770 agreed with the woman's testimony they 2620 01:43:25,740 --> 01:43:23,480 had cooperative testimony stating they 2621 01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:25,750 had seen the same thing but this was in 2622 01:43:31,540 --> 01:43:29,330 1957 reports of triangular objects and 2623 01:43:35,050 --> 01:43:31,550 more importantly being investigated by 2624 01:43:37,630 --> 01:43:35,060 the Danish military so and what's 2625 01:43:39,490 --> 01:43:37,640 interesting is the same week that that 2626 01:43:42,550 --> 01:43:39,500 wave apparently started based on my 2627 01:43:45,100 --> 01:43:42,560 research we have two accounts in blue 2628 01:43:48,340 --> 01:43:45,110 book actually three accounts two case 2629 01:43:50,979 --> 01:43:48,350 files describing triangular UFOs with 2630 01:43:53,650 --> 01:43:50,989 lights at each point moving silently and 2631 01:43:55,630 --> 01:43:53,660 low altitude one was over I believe 2632 01:43:58,990 --> 01:43:55,640 Delavan Wisconsin and the other one 2633 01:44:01,780 --> 01:43:59,000 across the Illinois border and in an air 2634 01:44:05,020 --> 01:44:01,790 intelligence report from the same week 2635 01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:05,030 we have in Sumatra Indonesia two 2636 01:44:09,340 --> 01:44:06,610 fishermen that claimed they saw the 2637 01:44:12,090 --> 01:44:09,350 triangular object moving over their 2638 01:44:14,559 --> 01:44:12,100 fishing boat all within the same week in 2639 01:44:16,149 --> 01:44:14,569 1957 that's a man this is 2640 01:44:17,739 --> 01:44:16,159 or the days of the internet where you 2641 01:44:19,389 --> 01:44:17,749 can quickly see what's going on across 2642 01:44:21,159 --> 01:44:19,399 the world and then fabricated report 2643 01:44:23,229 --> 01:44:21,169 this was all within a matter of days 2644 01:44:25,779 --> 01:44:23,239 that these were all being reported 2645 01:44:28,569 --> 01:44:25,789 across the world and then that's just of 2646 01:44:29,979 --> 01:44:28,579 course one of many Bluebook in fact 2647 01:44:32,289 --> 01:44:29,989 Project Blue Book I went through all the 2648 01:44:34,689 --> 01:44:32,299 Blue Book files and tried to call all of 2649 01:44:36,099 --> 01:44:34,699 the triangular reports they had what was 2650 01:44:37,989 --> 01:44:36,109 interesting is there was a case from the 2651 01:44:40,839 --> 01:44:37,999 mid-60s and there was a sketch which I 2652 01:44:44,139 --> 01:44:40,849 included in my book where they show the 2653 01:44:45,939 --> 01:44:44,149 triangle like this but the flat side is 2654 01:44:49,059 --> 01:44:45,949 the leading edge in other words the 2655 01:44:50,469 --> 01:44:49,069 object was moving like this and that 2656 01:44:52,209 --> 01:44:50,479 conforms to some of the modern-day 2657 01:44:54,069 --> 01:44:52,219 accounts were witness estate I saw this 2658 01:44:55,599 --> 01:44:54,079 triangular object but it was strange the 2659 01:44:56,649 --> 01:44:55,609 point of the object wasn't the leading 2660 01:44:59,949 --> 01:44:56,659 edge like we would think of with 2661 01:45:01,989 --> 01:44:59,959 aircraft and here in the mid-60s we have 2662 01:45:03,789 --> 01:45:01,999 a report in Blue Book where they showed 2663 01:45:06,819 --> 01:45:03,799 an equilateral triangle moving with a 2664 01:45:08,649 --> 01:45:06,829 blunt side forward with three bright 2665 01:45:10,599 --> 01:45:08,659 white lights at each point which 2666 01:45:13,899 --> 01:45:10,609 conforms to the modern-day reports and 2667 01:45:16,959 --> 01:45:13,909 then in flying saucer review magazine 2668 01:45:18,609 --> 01:45:16,969 going back even further in the late 50s 2669 01:45:21,429 --> 01:45:18,619 there was a gentleman that was a 2670 01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:21,439 researcher that actually wrote a article 2671 01:45:27,369 --> 01:45:24,530 on Delta valance as he called him are 2672 01:45:30,029 --> 01:45:27,379 flying deltas and that's what they 2673 01:45:32,289 --> 01:45:30,039 called him back then in England and 2674 01:45:33,699 --> 01:45:32,299 interestingly enough one of the 2675 01:45:36,219 --> 01:45:33,709 characteristics he pointed out in the 2676 01:45:37,929 --> 01:45:36,229 article was the uncanny strange ability 2677 01:45:39,959 --> 01:45:37,939 for these triangular objects to move 2678 01:45:43,899 --> 01:45:39,969 with the flat side as the leading edge 2679 01:45:46,449 --> 01:45:43,909 so we start to see conformity in these 2680 01:45:48,250 --> 01:45:46,459 reports you have to stand up and start 2681 01:45:51,459 --> 01:45:48,260 taking notice and realizing that there 2682 01:45:52,689 --> 01:45:51,469 is a pattern of reporting and the one 2683 01:45:54,819 --> 01:45:52,699 thing I think is important again going 2684 01:45:57,279 --> 01:45:54,829 back to the thinking of the time Marton 2685 01:46:00,250 --> 01:45:57,289 if you or I were sitting in a cornfield 2686 01:46:01,659 --> 01:46:00,260 in 1952 looking up at the stars and we 2687 01:46:03,909 --> 01:46:01,669 decided we were gonna invent a flying 2688 01:46:05,289 --> 01:46:03,919 saucer story we're probably going to 2689 01:46:07,479 --> 01:46:05,299 invent a story that conforms to what 2690 01:46:10,329 --> 01:46:07,489 people want to hear namely a flying 2691 01:46:12,009 --> 01:46:10,339 saucer these people weren't reporting 2692 01:46:14,199 --> 01:46:12,019 that they were reporting something that 2693 01:46:15,969 --> 01:46:14,209 completely went against the grain so if 2694 01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:15,979 you wanted to come up with a believable 2695 01:46:20,709 --> 01:46:19,010 hoax or a fabricated story you think you 2696 01:46:23,049 --> 01:46:20,719 would tell the people what they want to 2697 01:46:25,089 --> 01:46:23,059 hear oh yeah I saw a flying saucer with 2698 01:46:28,419 --> 01:46:25,099 a little dome on top that's not what 2699 01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:28,429 these people were reporting so 2700 01:46:32,500 --> 01:46:31,010 what do you tell the I have a couple of 2701 01:46:35,259 --> 01:46:32,510 questions about this about your book too 2702 01:46:38,350 --> 01:46:35,269 and how that led to other things are but 2703 01:46:39,669 --> 01:46:38,360 what do you tell the I've had skeptics 2704 01:46:43,359 --> 01:46:39,679 on the show that have said this phrase 2705 01:46:45,339 --> 01:46:43,369 to me and that is all of triangle UFOs 2706 01:46:48,509 --> 01:46:45,349 are and I had someone actually say this 2707 01:46:52,270 --> 01:46:48,519 verbatim all triangle UFOs are basically 2708 01:46:53,830 --> 01:46:52,280 secret government craft mmm-hmm and what 2709 01:46:55,779 --> 01:46:53,840 what's your response because you said 2710 01:46:56,830 --> 01:46:55,789 back in 1957 I don't think they would 2711 01:46:58,660 --> 01:46:56,840 have something like that 2712 01:47:00,339 --> 01:46:58,670 and that's one of the reasons I wrote 2713 01:47:02,469 --> 01:47:00,349 the book is to show the historical 2714 01:47:04,660 --> 01:47:02,479 argument because usually that thought 2715 01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:04,670 process is predicated on the notion I 2716 01:47:08,049 --> 01:47:06,530 alluded to earlier that these things 2717 01:47:10,929 --> 01:47:08,059 didn't appear until the 70s or the 80s 2718 01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:10,939 and you know what if they only did 2719 01:47:14,709 --> 01:47:13,130 appear then I would probably be saying 2720 01:47:17,109 --> 01:47:14,719 yet this has to be something military 2721 01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:17,119 because we didn't see him before that a 2722 01:47:21,959 --> 01:47:19,010 historical record simply doesn't bear 2723 01:47:24,279 --> 01:47:21,969 that out we see reports worldwide 2724 01:47:26,949 --> 01:47:24,289 describing similar objects similar 2725 01:47:29,109 --> 01:47:26,959 flight dynamics and I won't answer that 2726 01:47:31,419 --> 01:47:29,119 question if I can kind of channel if you 2727 01:47:34,689 --> 01:47:31,429 will statements made by the late dr. 2728 01:47:36,910 --> 01:47:34,699 Paul's this doctors this worked at st. 2729 01:47:38,850 --> 01:47:36,920 Louis University he was in charge of 2730 01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:38,860 parks air college teaching 2731 01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:42,320 aerospace and aviation and he was a 2732 01:47:47,679 --> 01:47:46,010 leading aviation authority any time a 2733 01:47:49,540 --> 01:47:47,689 plane crashed or a new plane came out 2734 01:47:51,189 --> 01:47:49,550 they would always interview dr. Paul's 2735 01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:51,199 this I had 2736 01:47:55,660 --> 01:47:53,510 luckily the ability to interview him in 2737 01:47:56,890 --> 01:47:55,670 fact I have one regret with the book 2738 01:47:58,810 --> 01:47:56,900 which I often don't talk about I 2739 01:48:01,419 --> 01:47:58,820 actually had half a chapter I was going 2740 01:48:03,759 --> 01:48:01,429 to devote to having doctors this talk 2741 01:48:05,350 --> 01:48:03,769 about where state-of-the-art technology 2742 01:48:06,310 --> 01:48:05,360 is as far as he could talk about it 2743 01:48:08,709 --> 01:48:06,320 because he was involved in 2744 01:48:10,359 --> 01:48:08,719 compartmentalize classified projects 2745 01:48:12,429 --> 01:48:10,369 when I got in touch with him he was 2746 01:48:14,949 --> 01:48:12,439 battling cancer and actually died about 2747 01:48:16,989 --> 01:48:14,959 I believe it was August 2 just two 2748 01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:16,999 months after my book was published but I 2749 01:48:21,459 --> 01:48:19,130 did get the ability to interview him by 2750 01:48:23,649 --> 01:48:21,469 phone and I was able to get one thing 2751 01:48:25,509 --> 01:48:23,659 which he said I could quote him on and I 2752 01:48:27,699 --> 01:48:25,519 asked him this going back to the famous 2753 01:48:29,620 --> 01:48:27,709 January 5th 2000 case which I personally 2754 01:48:31,089 --> 01:48:29,630 investigated which really personally 2755 01:48:34,330 --> 01:48:31,099 assured me into looking at these 2756 01:48:36,370 --> 01:48:34,340 triangular UFOs I asked him because he 2757 01:48:37,959 --> 01:48:36,380 was he was interviewed at the time by 2758 01:48:40,060 --> 01:48:37,969 st. Louis media in the wake of that 2759 01:48:41,620 --> 01:48:40,070 sighting wanting to get his aviation 2760 01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:41,630 expert opinion on this 2761 01:48:46,060 --> 01:48:44,570 and I asked him I said knowing about 2762 01:48:48,550 --> 01:48:46,070 that case because I know you had a 2763 01:48:51,070 --> 01:48:48,560 personal interest in it and based on 2764 01:48:53,470 --> 01:48:51,080 your 30-plus years of research in 2765 01:48:54,730 --> 01:48:53,480 compartmentalize classified projects and 2766 01:48:58,270 --> 01:48:54,740 his specialty for Boeing and McDonnell 2767 01:49:00,700 --> 01:48:58,280 Douglas was advanced aviation propulsion 2768 01:49:04,450 --> 01:49:00,710 technology I mean that was his specialty 2769 01:49:06,850 --> 01:49:04,460 so I defer to him as an expert I asked 2770 01:49:08,860 --> 01:49:06,860 him I said looking back on this case 13 2771 01:49:11,770 --> 01:49:08,870 years later knowing what you know about 2772 01:49:13,450 --> 01:49:11,780 that case and knowing about what you 2773 01:49:17,080 --> 01:49:13,460 know of as being state-of-the-art 2774 01:49:19,330 --> 01:49:17,090 technology do you think these police 2775 01:49:21,220 --> 01:49:19,340 officers saw something we manufactured 2776 01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:21,230 or do you think was someone elses 2777 01:49:28,390 --> 01:49:26,210 technology and he stated David if they 2778 01:49:30,820 --> 01:49:28,400 were only describing a triangular 2779 01:49:32,770 --> 01:49:30,830 aircraft I would think it could have 2780 01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:32,780 been something that you might see near 2781 01:49:37,090 --> 01:49:35,330 Edwards Air Force Base which was his way 2782 01:49:40,240 --> 01:49:37,100 of implying that we do have triangular 2783 01:49:42,490 --> 01:49:40,250 shaped aircraft but he went on to state 2784 01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:42,500 the ability for this object to 2785 01:49:47,410 --> 01:49:44,930 accelerate from a dead stop to go 2786 01:49:49,630 --> 01:49:47,420 supersonic to not generate a sonic boom 2787 01:49:52,060 --> 01:49:49,640 and to basically have some of these 2788 01:49:54,280 --> 01:49:52,070 other unusual flight characteristics he 2789 01:49:56,440 --> 01:49:54,290 said I believe it was someone else's 2790 01:49:58,180 --> 01:49:56,450 technology I'm paraphrasing people can 2791 01:50:01,630 --> 01:49:58,190 look at in the book the exact quote but 2792 01:50:03,100 --> 01:50:01,640 I defer to him my opinion doesn't matter 2793 01:50:05,020 --> 01:50:03,110 but here's a gentleman 30 years of 2794 01:50:07,540 --> 01:50:05,030 compartmentalize classified projects in 2795 01:50:09,610 --> 01:50:07,550 the area of advanced aviation propulsion 2796 01:50:11,620 --> 01:50:09,620 I think his opinion carries some light 2797 01:50:14,110 --> 01:50:11,630 and he doesn't think with these things 2798 01:50:16,480 --> 01:50:14,120 people have been seeing he doesn't think 2799 01:50:17,860 --> 01:50:16,490 that these are ours Wow interesting we 2800 01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:17,870 only have a couple minutes left can you 2801 01:50:22,780 --> 01:50:18,890 believe it 2802 01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:22,790 time flies every time we talk us so I 2803 01:50:27,820 --> 01:50:25,970 know that you were after you your book 2804 01:50:30,550 --> 01:50:27,830 was out that you were contacted by many 2805 01:50:32,710 --> 01:50:30,560 many other people that had want to tell 2806 01:50:35,530 --> 01:50:32,720 you about their triangle cases is there 2807 01:50:38,020 --> 01:50:35,540 going to be a volume - well you know 2808 01:50:41,440 --> 01:50:38,030 I've had a lot of people ask me that and 2809 01:50:43,870 --> 01:50:41,450 first let me just say I was naive I had 2810 01:50:45,130 --> 01:50:43,880 never written a book before and like I 2811 01:50:46,930 --> 01:50:45,140 said I wanted to set the record straight 2812 01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:46,940 I wanted to get these people or making 2813 01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:49,130 these comments that simply didn't match 2814 01:50:52,690 --> 01:50:50,690 the information that I was sitting in 2815 01:50:54,220 --> 01:50:52,700 front of my goal was to get the 2816 01:50:55,360 --> 01:50:54,230 information out there to set the record 2817 01:50:57,700 --> 01:50:55,370 straight and 2818 01:50:59,080 --> 01:50:57,710 basically encourage other people look 2819 01:51:00,970 --> 01:50:59,090 this is what I found in the way of 2820 01:51:03,940 --> 01:51:00,980 research I hope this will encourage you 2821 01:51:06,130 --> 01:51:03,950 to do additional research what I did not 2822 01:51:08,530 --> 01:51:06,140 expect and item still to this day 2823 01:51:12,490 --> 01:51:08,540 periodically getting emails and phone 2824 01:51:14,590 --> 01:51:12,500 calls from people reports from all 2825 01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:14,600 around the world I mean Martin I have to 2826 01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:17,530 tell you I was I was humbled by 2827 01:51:23,530 --> 01:51:19,730 receiving emails from people in 2828 01:51:25,510 --> 01:51:23,540 Switzerland Germany the UK many of these 2829 01:51:29,140 --> 01:51:25,520 people I then subsequently interviewed 2830 01:51:31,180 --> 01:51:29,150 and getting these reports and I even 2831 01:51:34,090 --> 01:51:31,190 that one of the first ladies that 2832 01:51:35,590 --> 01:51:34,100 contacted me it started with a series of 2833 01:51:37,780 --> 01:51:35,600 emails and then I wanted to speak with 2834 01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:37,790 her she had a sighting in the mid 80s up 2835 01:51:40,810 --> 01:51:39,530 around New York and I believe it was 2836 01:51:44,230 --> 01:51:40,820 right before around the Hudson Valley 2837 01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:44,240 time period I talked to her and she 2838 01:51:50,320 --> 01:51:46,850 literally was in tears talking to me and 2839 01:51:52,120 --> 01:51:50,330 this is why she said David for years I 2840 01:51:53,410 --> 01:51:52,130 would tell people about my UFO sighting 2841 01:51:56,440 --> 01:51:53,420 and I wasn't the only one that saw it 2842 01:51:58,480 --> 01:51:56,450 but even friends and family would kind 2843 01:52:01,390 --> 01:51:58,490 of give me that look like come on really 2844 01:52:03,400 --> 01:52:01,400 did you see that and she goes I know 2845 01:52:05,620 --> 01:52:03,410 what I saw she goes I know I saw 2846 01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:05,630 something but she goes and then some of 2847 01:52:09,580 --> 01:52:07,010 my friends that would just kind of 2848 01:52:10,990 --> 01:52:09,590 ridicule it or laugh it off and she told 2849 01:52:14,020 --> 01:52:11,000 me and she's like I said she was in 2850 01:52:16,510 --> 01:52:14,030 tears she said your book gave validity 2851 01:52:19,690 --> 01:52:16,520 to my sighting she goes you validated 2852 01:52:22,330 --> 01:52:19,700 what I know I saw and when I read about 2853 01:52:25,150 --> 01:52:22,340 other people having these sightings it 2854 01:52:26,860 --> 01:52:25,160 validated everything that I knew but I 2855 01:52:28,390 --> 01:52:26,870 tried to tell these other people and 2856 01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:28,400 I've had a number of other people use 2857 01:52:33,370 --> 01:52:30,410 that term that you validated my sighting 2858 01:52:35,980 --> 01:52:33,380 and I just I want to thank the people 2859 01:52:38,020 --> 01:52:35,990 that have come forward and reached out 2860 01:52:40,690 --> 01:52:38,030 to me and shared their their cases and 2861 01:52:42,430 --> 01:52:40,700 their their reports with me will I write 2862 01:52:46,690 --> 01:52:42,440 a second book on the subject at this 2863 01:52:48,340 --> 01:52:46,700 point I would say no only because the 2864 01:52:50,620 --> 01:52:48,350 one issue I ran into and writing the 2865 01:52:53,140 --> 01:52:50,630 book was not trying to be too redundant 2866 01:52:55,660 --> 01:52:53,150 but at the same time trying to impart 2867 01:52:57,520 --> 01:52:55,670 the fact that there is consistency I 2868 01:52:59,350 --> 01:52:57,530 wanted to be redundant to the point 2869 01:53:01,870 --> 01:52:59,360 where look isn't it interesting that 2870 01:53:03,670 --> 01:53:01,880 these reports are redundant that these 2871 01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:03,680 disparate witnesses are reporting the 2872 01:53:08,870 --> 01:53:06,530 same thing I think I've made my case I 2873 01:53:10,370 --> 01:53:08,880 think I've established enough case 2874 01:53:13,250 --> 01:53:10,380 Tyrael to show that there is a pattern 2875 01:53:15,020 --> 01:53:13,260 there is a profile and I think to go any 2876 01:53:18,740 --> 01:53:15,030 further with that would truly be 2877 01:53:20,270 --> 01:53:18,750 redundant with a capital R what I really 2878 01:53:22,250 --> 01:53:20,280 want to start focusing on though are 2879 01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:22,260 these historical cases as we alluded to 2880 01:53:26,870 --> 01:53:25,199 in the show today the the Farmington 2881 01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:26,880 incident the Battle of LA and there's 2882 01:53:31,370 --> 01:53:29,130 some other historical cases that I'm 2883 01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:31,380 just waiting for the free time to delve 2884 01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:35,010 into so I think I've done enough for 2885 01:53:39,530 --> 01:53:36,810 triangular UFOs and at the risk of 2886 01:53:40,669 --> 01:53:39,540 getting stereotyped in fact people have 2887 01:53:42,470 --> 01:53:40,679 talked to me they're like well I thought 2888 01:53:44,149 --> 01:53:42,480 you just did triangular UFOs I said well 2889 01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:44,159 don't stereotype me I feel like an actor 2890 01:53:48,080 --> 01:53:45,570 from the 60s you know I did that one 2891 01:53:51,470 --> 01:53:48,090 show back 60 people only see me for that 2892 01:53:53,060 --> 01:53:51,480 yeah there's a lot of material here and 2893 01:53:55,370 --> 01:53:53,070 a lot of material I still have to go 2894 01:53:56,840 --> 01:53:55,380 through and that's where I really want 2895 01:53:58,700 --> 01:53:56,850 to kind of dig my teeth into and 2896 01:54:01,729 --> 01:53:58,710 continue that historical investigation 2897 01:54:05,090 --> 01:54:01,739 of cases Dave you've been wonderful is 2898 01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:05,100 always so glad to talk to you I always 2899 01:54:06,979 --> 01:54:05,850 have fun either 2900 01:54:08,720 --> 01:54:06,989 either on air or off air with our 2901 01:54:10,729 --> 01:54:08,730 conversations so this has been really 2902 01:54:12,379 --> 01:54:10,739 enjoyable and really appreciate it David 2903 01:54:13,550 --> 01:54:12,389 O'Leary as well at the beginning of the 2904 01:54:15,850 --> 01:54:13,560 show that was a treat 2905 01:54:18,919 --> 01:54:15,860 excellent all right well you take care 2906 01:54:22,189 --> 01:54:18,929 you too my friend all right all right 2907 01:54:25,459 --> 01:54:22,199 everyone so that's it we'll be back next 2908 01:54:26,959 --> 01:54:25,469 week and actually for those listening on 2909 01:54:29,300 --> 01:54:26,969 youtube we're gonna be back in just a 2910 01:54:32,479 --> 01:54:29,310 couple of a couple of days on Tuesday 2911 01:54:34,430 --> 01:54:32,489 and we're gonna be in studio with Mack 2912 01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:34,440 Maloney and friends alright everyone 2913 01:54:39,500 --> 01:54:36,810 thanks so much and remember to keep your 2914 01:54:41,270 --> 01:54:39,510 eyes to the sky and it hits me oh my 2915 01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:41,280 gosh this is that triangle 2916 01:54:43,430 --> 01:54:42,330 you know there's explanation for 2917 01:54:45,050 --> 01:54:43,440 everything that appeared in the 2918 01:54:47,209 --> 01:54:45,060 Rendlesham forest incident Hitman 2919 01:54:49,910 --> 01:54:47,219 doesn't involve aliens at all it was 2920 01:54:50,569 --> 01:54:49,920 completely silent it comes right over 2921 01:54:54,109 --> 01:54:50,579 our head 2922 01:54:55,879 --> 01:54:54,119 it's so a Kazakh slice also really 2923 01:54:57,470 --> 01:54:55,889 stunning being the Clery he turned over 2924 01:54:58,850 --> 01:54:57,480 to my father and held his hand and he 2925 01:54:59,200 --> 01:54:58,860 looked in his eyes and said we're not